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Why the war is unconstitutional (Read 3747 times)
Rhapsody
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Why the war is unconstitutional
Aug 7th, 2007, 10:35am
 
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Re: Why the war is unconstitutional
Reply #1 - Aug 7th, 2007, 1:59pm
 
You only have 18 or so more boards to post this on, better get busy.
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LadyLawyer
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Re: Why the war is unconstitutional
Reply #2 - Aug 12th, 2007, 2:41am
 
Of course the war is unconstitutional.  It should be noted that it is often said that the Barbary Pirates were are first run in with the barbaric (no affiliation it should be noted) Muslims.  Within the confines of the Constitution, Jefferson acted.  He then went to Congress, and said anymore then that, and you guys have to declare war.  Perhaps we should study our own history a little further.
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Re: Why the war is unconstitutional
Reply #3 - Aug 13th, 2007, 12:55am
 
Actually, he went to Congress to raise the funds for a Navy.  Congress, somehow, just didn't see the value in that.   They preferred to pay tribute and ransom, and have our citizens murdered, plundered and enslaved than raise the money to fund a proper Navy.
 
Heavens to Betsy!  In their minds, it was such a boring waste of money to build a permanent military...
 
It took until 1815 before we finally had a Navy and smashed the Islamic fascist death cultists of the time.
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Re: Why the war is unconstitutional
Reply #4 - Aug 16th, 2007, 11:53am
 
Jefferson used the Navy bequeathed to him by Adams to fight the First Barbary War.  This Navy was built during the time of the Quasi-War with France, and should have been maintained.  
 
A powerful Navy is the first and best deterrent against foreign aggression.
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Re: Why the war is unconstitutional
Reply #5 - Aug 16th, 2007, 6:53pm
 

I just began reading Louis Fisher's Presidential War Power. So far, through the first two chapters, my understanding is that there is no official standard for declaring war. There is the formal declaration and Congressional authorisation. It seems that either of these methods may be used, and some of those authorisations seem vague, which the website accuses the Iraq War resolution of being.
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Re: Why the war is unconstitutional
Reply #6 - Aug 16th, 2007, 9:24pm
 
Quote from LadyLawyer   on Aug 12th, 2007, 2:41am:
Of course the war is unconstitutional.  It should be noted that it is often said that the Barbary Pirates were are first run in with the barbaric (no affiliation it should be noted) Muslims.  Within the confines of the Constitution, Jefferson acted.  He then went to Congress, and said anymore then that, and you guys have to declare war.  Perhaps we should study our own history a little further.  

 
Actually Jefferson also greenlighted a secret mission to overthrow one of the Barbary governments (Tripoli I think).... it involved an American diplomat, a handful of Marines (that's where the "to the shores of Tripoli" line in the Marine hymn comes from) a Muslim noble and his supporters and some mercenaries.... there was a military solution before the mission was carried through though. A few months ago I read a book about it but I can't recall the name at the moment..... it kind of presented Jefferson in a bad light especially in how after promising the Muslim noble who we were going to put on the throne support the Jefferson admin abandoned him.  
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Re: Why the war is unconstitutional
Reply #7 - Aug 16th, 2007, 9:27pm
 
I googled the book.... the name was:
 
The Pirate Coast: Thomas Jefferson, the First Marines, and the Secret Mission of 1805 by Richard Zacks.  
 
Very good read...
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LadyLawyer
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Re: Why the war is unconstitutional
Reply #8 - Aug 16th, 2007, 9:55pm
 
It is my understanding that the Marines were always under Presidential authority, not Congress.  Perhaps I am mistaken.  That would explain a "secret mission".  It should be noted that in his annual address to Congress, he says there are problems with Tunis that need to be settled and he will keep them informed, so it was not exactly "secret".
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Re: Why the war is unconstitutional
Reply #9 - Aug 16th, 2007, 10:02pm
 
Quote from LadyLawyer   on Aug 16th, 2007, 9:55pm:
It is my understanding that the Marines were always under Presidential authority, not Congress.  Perhaps I am mistaken.  That would explain a "secret mission".  It should be noted that in his annual address to Congress, he says there are problems with Tunis that need to be settled and he will keep them informed, so it was not exactly "secret".  

 
 
It was Tripoli not Tunis.... and of course everyone knew there was a problem with the Barbary states but the mission was secret.  
 
And just so I'm clear on what you said.... if Bush had just sent the Marines into Iraq he wouldn't have needed a Congressional declaration of war?
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