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Shooterman LNF Speaker LNF Bunker 2009 LNF libertarian of the year. Posts: 20768	Re: What/Who Created The Federal Government? Reply #10 - Mar 4^th, 2009, 8:28am Quote from K_I_S_S on Mar 4^th, 2009, 12:55am: When the sovereign states (creators) joined with other sovereign states to form a united government (creature), the creature became greater than the creators. How?
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jeff LNF Speaker LNF Bunker don't believe everything a moderator says. ;) Posts: 10618 Gender:	Re: What/Who Created The Federal Government? Reply #11 - Mar 4^th, 2009, 8:45am Quote from Lady_Marva on Mar 3^rd, 2009, 2:45pm: MOI does not know what the 14th Ammendment says. MOI mouth will remain shut. But not her eyes. aside from getting a TON meaningless post in.
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Berggeist

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Re: What/Who Created The Federal Government?
Reply #12 - Mar 4^th, 2009, 9:32am

Quote from K_I_S_S on Mar 4^th, 2009, 12:55am:

When the sovereign states (creators) joined with other sovereign states to form a united government (creature), the creature became greater than the creators.

That is utter myth based on unabashed hubris. The general government can no more become greater than its creator, the sovereign states, than you can become greater than Yours, unless you are delusional!

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The Pelican in Her Piety!

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Queshank Ex Member	Re: What/Who Created The Federal Government? Reply #13 - Mar 4^th, 2009, 9:48am The Constitution created the federal government. The states may have voted for the Constitution, but that's like suggesting the "people" created the office of the presidency when they vote for a president every 4 years. Queshank
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Queshank

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Re: What/Who Created The Federal Government?
Reply #14 - Mar 4^th, 2009, 9:49am

Quote from Berggeist on Mar 4^th, 2009, 9:32am:

That is utter myth based on unabashed hubris. The general government can no more become greater than its creator, the sovereign states, than you can become greater than Yours, unless you are delusional!

So ... the president has no more power than the citizen who voted for him?

Queshank

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Shooterman LNF Speaker LNF Bunker 2009 LNF libertarian of the year. Posts: 20768	Re: What/Who Created The Federal Government? Reply #15 - Mar 4^th, 2009, 11:49am Quote from Queshank on Mar 4^th, 2009, 9:49am: So ... the president has no more power than the citizen who voted for him? Queshank This is possibly germane, how, Que?
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Shooterman

LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker

2009 LNF libertarian
of the year.

Posts: 20768

Re: What/Who Created The Federal Government?
Reply #16 - Mar 4^th, 2009, 11:54am

Quote from Queshank on Mar 4^th, 2009, 9:48am:

The Constitution created the federal government. The states may have voted for the Constitution, but that's like suggesting the "people" created the office of the presidency when they vote for a president every 4 years.

Queshank

Think, Que. The states in convention may have written and voted for the Constitution, which merely, lays the ground work and rules for the central government to follow, but without the sovereign people ratifying the Constitution through their state governements, we would never have had the central government we have. We would stll be operating, presumably, under the Articles of Confederation which governed our central government before.

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We should not fall into the trap of taking ourselves too seriously. We are but sojourners between the Great Eternities Shooterman 1935-

"The United States is entirely a creature of the Constitution......." US vs Verdugo-Urquidez

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Berggeist

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Posts: 10174

Re: What/Who Created The Federal Government?
Reply #17 - Mar 4^th, 2009, 12:14pm

Quote from Queshank on Mar 4^th, 2009, 9:48am:

The Constitution created the federal government. The states may have voted for the Constitution, but that's like suggesting the "people" created the office of the presidency when they vote for a president every 4 years.

Queshank

A piece of paper, regardless of its name, can create nothing. It is merely the written articulation of the sovereign - the states, individually in convention assembled.

No, the office of the President was created as a component of the general government which was created by the state, individually in convention assembled. The electors, representing the states, elect a person to fill that office. That person, the President, while he has authority under the law as granted to him throught the Constitution by the states as represented by the people in convention assembled, is not sovereign in the least.

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The Pelican in Her Piety!

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Queshank Ex Member	Re: What/Who Created The Federal Government? Reply #18 - Mar 4^th, 2009, 2:11pm Quote from Shooterman on Mar 4^th, 2009, 11:49am: This is possibly germane, how, Que? It is a response to the idea that the created cannot be more powerful than the creator. Queshank
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Queshank

Ex Member

Re: What/Who Created The Federal Government?
Reply #19 - Mar 4^th, 2009, 2:16pm

Quote from Shooterman on Mar 4^th, 2009, 11:54am:

Think, Que. The states in convention may have written and voted for the Constitution, which merely, lays the ground work and rules for the central government to follow, but without the sovereign people ratifying the Constitution through their state governements, we would never have had the central government we have. We would stll be operating, presumably, under the Articles of Confederation which governed our central government before.

I do see your point... but I'm of the belief that in voting for the Constitution the states gave life to a creation which they not only placed above them, but which they have no real individual control over. The Constitution laid out the framework for the federal government...the States merely voted Yes or No on whether they wanted the Constitution.

Well crap. I just convinced myself that you're right. After all, the states created the Constitution through compromising and arguing until we had something all could agree on.

Queshank

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