(1) I part company with most brethren on the "free will" point. I start from the premise the entire Bible is God breathed through His men of old. That being the case I accept what it tells us about matters. When it says He chose who would live in eternity with Him waaaaaaaaay back before the foundation of the world (in the original language it indicates way back at God's beginning and we know He had no beginning so thats a long time back) writing their names in the Lambs book of Life and gives it to Jesus (who loses none) and when each of those chosen ones live their lives down through history He will draw them by the Holy Spirit and give them the free gift of salvation by His grace though their faith in Jesus..then seals them with the Spirit of promise until the day of redemption as a guarantee they are Gods own possession (Eph 1:13,14)  that it's totally His gift and through absolutely no effort of our own (lest any could boast) and CAUSES them to be born again (1Pet 1:3).... well in my understanding and at least for the CHOSEN it appears its all God's doing when it comes to salvation, not free will (choice) of the individual ? Whew, sorry to be so long winded but sometimes simple answers are not adequate to explain  

I understand your point of view, it's certainly seems logical and fair from the human perspective.  But it just seems too clear from scripture that we are all born running the other way and in rebellion and enmity with God.  That is the condition of the human "free" will.  Humanity fell into sin, rebellion. God never changed, He still demands Holiness and perfection.  Seems unfair?  Of course it does from where we stand.  Scripture is also clear that He provided a Savior.  And scripture is also clear that Salvation is a miracle.  Supernatural regeneration is the only way we can "accept" "believe" "receive" etc.
Adam and Eve were the only humans that truly had "free" will.  

There is a compromising view.  Those that believe in Prevenient grace.  They accept that all humanity is in total rebellion and their wills enslaved to Satan as the bible teaches.  They believe the Holy Spirit works in all humanity equally giving them the moral power to  "accept" "believe" "receive" etc.  

(1) I part company with most brethren on the "free will" point. I start from the premise the entire Bible is God breathed through His men of old. That being the case I accept what it tells us about matters. When it says He chose who would live in eternity with Him waaaaaaaaay back before the foundation of the world (in the original language it indicates way back at God's beginning and we know He had no beginning so thats a long time back) writing their names in the Lambs book of Life and gives it to Jesus (who loses none) and when each of those chosen ones live their lives down through history He will draw them by the Holy Spirit and give them the free gift of salvation by His grace though their faith in Jesus..then seals them with the Spirit of promise until the day of redemption as a guarantee they are Gods own possession (Eph 1:13,14)  that it's totally His gift and through absolutely no effort of our own (lest any could boast) and CAUSES them to be born again (1Pet 1:3).... well in my understanding and at least for the CHOSEN it appears its all God's doing when it comes to salvation, not free will (choice) of the individual ? Whew, sorry to be so long winded but sometimes simple answers are not adequate to explain  

I understand predestination a bit differently and it ties directly in to the book of The Revelation (or maybe more accurately I think it is validated in the book) God's fulfillment/completion of humankind's restoration through Christ.

As I presently understand predestination ... individual humans are not predestined. The church (the bride of Christ in Rev. 21-22) is predestined. Anyone who chooses (free will) to respond to the Holy Spirit and receive God's offer of reconciliation through Christ is birthed into the predestined Church. We are only predestined by association/affiliation/identification (I am not talking about local church membership here) with Christ's bride.

I think a closer reading of Paul's passages on predestination will bear this out. As I understand it, he is writing in the plural, to the church, not to us as individuals.

As far as that goes, I think we often misread the New Testament (Epistles in particular) because we tend to interpret them as being for the individual rather than the faith community and those in community.



Just thoughts ... no conclusions.

John 6:43 Jesus answered and said to them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
64 “But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

Romans 9:

14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,

and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”f

16It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”g 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”h 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

I understand predestination a bit differently and it ties directly in to the book of The Revelation (or maybe more accurately I think it is validated in the book) God's fulfillment/completion of humankind's restoration through Christ.

(1) As I presently understand predestination ...(2) individual humans are not predestined. The church (the bride of Christ in Rev. 21-22) is predestined. Anyone who chooses(3) (free will) to respond to the Holy Spirit and receive God's offer of reconciliation through Christ is birthed into the(4) predestined Church. We are only predestined by association/affiliation/identification (I am not talking about local church membership here) with Christ's bride.

I think a closer reading of Paul's passages on predestination will bear this out. As I understand it, he is writing in the(5) plural, to the church, not to us as individuals.

As far as that goes, I think we often misread the New Testament (Epistles in particular) because we tend to interpret them as being for the individual rather than the faith community and those in community.

(6) Just thoughts ... no conclusions.