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Howard Roark

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Non-celibate Gay Pastors
Sep 28^th, 2009, 3:49pm

Since, as I have been informed, this is a forum for Christians, I thought this would be a good place to pose this question.

I am a Deist, however, my wife is a rather devout Lutheran. Recently the ELCA (Evangelican Lutheran Church in America) voted to allow, for lack of a better term, non-celibate Gay Pastors to preach in ELCA churches. Apparently, this has caused a lot of dissent in the member churches of the ELCA - my wife's being but one. Her church council has voted to leave the ELCA and it will shortly be put to a vote for the general congregation - it is almost assured to pass.

The amazing thing is, that from what I can see, my wife's church is pretty much the epitome of Liberal Christianity - fairly ozzing with Political Correctness! (One of the reason I feel less than comfortable there). So when they voted to leave the ELCA over the issue of Gay Pastors, I was dumbfounded to say the least!

So, my question to the good Christians of this board is... Do you approve of non-celibate gay pastor in your particular church? I find that many Christians have no problem with Gay Pastors in other peoples churches, but when it comes to their own church, that's the proverbial horse of a different color.

I'm not here to try and convince someone one way or another, nor am I here to judge. I'm just interested in how Christians view this subject.

Thanks,
-JG

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Mercy For All LNF Moderator LNF Bunker Conservative Caucus Be completely alive until you're completely dead. Posts: 27618 Gender:	Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors Reply #1 - Sep 28^th, 2009, 4:22pm Given that you say you understand that parameters of this board, I wonder why you posted this? I will, however, respond to say that I do not approve of non-celibate gay pastors--in my church or any other church (not that another church would require my approval). The teaching in the Bible is pretty clear about that.
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LadyBug Vice President Hardhat LNF Bunker Posts: 28981 Gender:	Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors Reply #2 - Sep 28^th, 2009, 6:37pm I wouldn't approve it either.
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Howard Roark

LNF Representative2

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Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors
Reply #3 - Sep 28^th, 2009, 11:41pm

Quote from Mercy For All on Sep 28^th, 2009, 4:22pm:

Given that you say you understand that parameters of this board, I wonder why you posted this?

I will, however, respond to say that I do not approve of non-celibate gay pastors--in my church or any other church (not that another church would require my approval). The teaching in the Bible is pretty clear about that.

Thank you for your candor. As to why I posed my question here, I think that would be obvious. Where better to get the opinion of a large group of Christians on a topic that impacts Christians than on a Christian Forum? Wink

-JG

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If half as many Muslims would have gotten as upset about the attacks of 9/11 as are getting all worked up about the buring of a few Korans by a no-name nut in Florida, Americans, and the world in general, would have a much more favorable impression of "The Religion of Peace".

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PathFinder Ex Member	Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors Reply #4 - Sep 29^th, 2009, 9:55am I just have one question: If he is celibate, how can we tell that he's gay? IOW, isn't the phrase "non-celibate gay" a little bit of a pleonasm?
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Howard Roark

LNF Representative2

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Posts: 2519
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Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors
Reply #5 - Sep 29^th, 2009, 2:41pm

Quote from PathFinder on Sep 29^th, 2009, 9:55am:

I just have one question: If he is celibate, how can we tell that he's gay? Huh

IOW, isn't the phrase "non-celibate gay" a little bit of a pleonasm?

These definitions are the ones used by the ELCA. The way I understand it, until just recently Gay Pastors were accepted only if they pledged to remain "celibate". Now, they have decided to accept Gay Pastor who are not "celibate" - and that is when the fat hit the fire!

-JG

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If half as many Muslims would have gotten as upset about the attacks of 9/11 as are getting all worked up about the buring of a few Korans by a no-name nut in Florida, Americans, and the world in general, would have a much more favorable impression of "The Religion of Peace".

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Mercy For All

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Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors
Reply #6 - Sep 29^th, 2009, 5:22pm

Quote from PathFinder on Sep 29^th, 2009, 9:55am:

I just have one question: If he is celibate, how can we tell that he's gay? Huh

IOW, isn't the phrase "non-celibate gay" a little bit of a pleonasm?

That's the problem with terminology. Some people use the term "gay" to refer to orientation rather than practice.

Orientation is attraction. There are some people who may have had a homosexual experience but are not homosexual by attraction. When homosexuality is referred to in the Bible, it refers to practice rather than orientation (probably a concept that would not have been understood in that culture).

Thus, I have a friend who is gay by orientation but not by practice.

Ironically, his answer to the question, "Are you gay?" depends on who is asking.

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Howard Roark

LNF Representative2

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Posts: 2519
Gender: male

Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors
Reply #7 - Sep 30^th, 2009, 1:11am

Quote from Mercy For All on Sep 29^th, 2009, 5:22pm:

That's the problem with terminology. Some people use the term "gay" to refer to orientation rather than practice.

Orientation is attraction. There are some people who may have had a homosexual experience but are not homosexual by attraction. When homosexuality is referred to in the Bible, it refers to practice rather than orientation (probably a concept that would not have been understood in that culture).

Thus, I have a friend who is gay by orientation but not by practice.

Ironically, his answer to the question, "Are you gay?" depends on who is asking.

I would challenge that assertion, but this really isn't the time or place.

Another day, perhaps, in one of the other forums! Wink

-JG

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If half as many Muslims would have gotten as upset about the attacks of 9/11 as are getting all worked up about the buring of a few Korans by a no-name nut in Florida, Americans, and the world in general, would have a much more favorable impression of "The Religion of Peace".

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fair-minded know it all

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Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors
Reply #8 - Sep 30^th, 2009, 6:13am

Quote from John_Galt on Sep 28^th, 2009, 3:49pm:

So, my question to the good Christians of this board is... Do you approve of non-celibate gay pastor in your particular church? I find that many Christians have no problem with Gay Pastors in other peoples churches, but when it comes to their own church, that's the proverbial horse of a different color.

I'm not here to try and convince someone one way or another, nor am I here to judge. I'm just interested in how Christians view this subject.

Thanks,
-JG

What MFA said.

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rainbowseer LNF Party Leader LNF Bunker Posts: 4150 Gender:	Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors Reply #9 - Oct 1^st, 2009, 8:46am I wouldn't want a non-celibate gay pastor, I wouldn't want a non-celibate unmarried straight pastor either.
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