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JDD

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Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors
Reply #100 - Oct 24^th, 2009, 5:26pm

Quote from PathFinder on Oct 3^rd, 2009, 4:49pm:

Let say I hate people, but I spend my whole life PRETENDING that I love them.

How do you thing YOUR god would be "concerned" by that?

Do you think that God according to MFA is only concerned with appearances?

All christians are sinners PathFinder and spend their christian life resisting and not resisting different temptations. By not doing a sin even though our desire is to do it is apparently PRETENDING in your understanding but according to Scripture resisting that temptation is obedience to God in christian understanding. Call it what we may but the less we sin as a christian the more pleasing it is to God and the more mature we become as His child

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Mercy For All

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Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors
Reply #101 - Oct 24^th, 2009, 7:07pm

Quote from uncle_abee on Oct 23^rd, 2009, 2:00pm:

God has given us in the bible everything we need to fulfill our spiritual lives. The church is a spiritual entity. Any questions we have on it we can refer to the bible and find the answer. If we would do that and leave the rest alone we'd be amazed how much unity we would find. If I want to know what are the qualifications for an Elder/Pastor/Overseer all I need do is go look at 1 Tim chapter 3. Once I read it I need to accept it, not add to it, and go with it. I don't question whether a woman can be a Pastor. The bible says "husband." A husband is not a woman. A husband means he has a wife. Openly gay men don't have wives. That automatically disqualifies them.

In my church do we all agree 100% on every point? Of course not. But what we have agreed to is that the bible will be sought for any spiritual question and we would not add or take away from what the bible says.

Not true at all (the bolded part). God has given us his Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is not "contained in" the Bible. God has given us salvation through Jesus Christ. That is not "contained in" the Bible.

The Bible says nothing about speeding tickets, internet usage, or pacifism vs. just war. To believe that "the Bible contains everything we need" is to miss that the Bible primarily points us to Christ; it is not a "rulebook."

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JDD

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Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors
Reply #102 - Oct 25^th, 2009, 11:09am

Quote from uncle_abee on Oct 23^rd, 2009, 2:00pm:

God has given us in the bible everything we need to fulfill our spiritual lives. The church is a spiritual entity. Any questions we have on it we can refer to the bible and find the answer.

Welcome back UA, I'm with you concerning the importance of Scripture for life's guidance and its listing of qualifications for leadership within a church you mentioned. It seems to me the main problem within the institutional church in modern times is the low view of Scripture in many, primarily believing some of it is inspired but not all of it and therefor people can justify various things by saying this or that was of man, not God (personal interpretation to fit ones own stance in other words). When it says a women shouldn't have authority over or teach men, some will simply discard that to Paul's personal stance because of the patriarchal culture of his time and is not binding in todays female liberated era of enlightenment

They justify homosexual behavior and other issues similarly by excusing certain things today in comparison to ancient times and that culture. If God breathed all Scripture through His prophets and apostles of old, and I believe He did, then he took into account ancient cultures and instructed accordingly so His necessary principles for guidance are as relevant today as 2000 years ago.

To give us an idea of the high status the revealed Word of God is in His own mind (and should be in ours too) we're told in the Bible the name of Jesus Christ is the most important name in creation, a time will come when at it's mention every knee will bow within the universe, yet He magnifies His Word even above that name (Ps 138:2 KJV)

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JDD

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Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors
Reply #103 - Oct 25^th, 2009, 11:38am

Quote from Mercy For All on Oct 24^th, 2009, 7:07pm:

(1) Not true at all (the bolded part). (2) God has given us his Holy Spirit. (3) The Holy Spirit is not "contained in" the Bible. (4) God has given us salvation through Jesus Christ. That is not "contained in" the Bible.

(5) The Bible says nothing about speeding tickets, internet usage, or pacifism vs. just war. To believe that "the Bible contains everything we need" is to miss that the Bible primarily points us to Christ; it is not a "rulebook."

(1) Not the particulars for everything, but is adequate for Godly living we're told

(2) Who we're told inspired the writings of Scripture itself (God through the Holy Spirit)

(3) Thank God (:

(4) But that salvation comes through the hearing of the Word.... BOTH are real important it seems, the Word that tells us about the savior and after accepting that message and being saved by Jesus..... then the Word for help in living a life pleasing to that very same Lord

(5) No, but it does give us Gods principles for all kinds of things and most can be applied to cover the various specifics that aren't in the Bible itself (in the end it becomes between individual conscience & God)

Technically I believe the Bible is actually a rule book after all because it tells the story of Jesus and gives us the most important rule of all, how to be reconciled to God through His Son and His sacrifice that pays the sin debt for those who accept Gods requirement (rule?) Roll Eyes

Peace bro

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Mercy For All

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Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors
Reply #104 - Oct 25^th, 2009, 8:29pm

Quote from JDD on Oct 25^th, 2009, 11:38am:

(1) Not the particulars for everything, but is adequate for Godly living we're told

(2) Who we're told inspired the writings of Scripture itself (God through the Holy Spirit)

(3) Thank God (:

(4) But that salvation comes through the hearing of the Word.... BOTH are real important it seems, the Word that tells us about the savior and after accepting that message and being saved by Jesus..... then the Word for help in living a life pleasing to that very same Lord

(5) No, but it does give us Gods principles for all kinds of things and most can be applied to cover the various specifics that aren't in the Bible itself (in the end it becomes between individual conscience & God)

Technically I believe the Bible is actually a rule book after all because it tells the story of Jesus and gives us the most important rule of all, how to be reconciled to God through His Son and His sacrifice that pays the sin debt for those who accept Gods requirement (rule?) Roll Eyes

Peace bro

I want to be clear. Christ is what we need. If we can't read, we're not sunk. The Bible reveals Christ. There are biblical principles but you can live by biblical principles and miss the Author. That's what the Pharisees did.

So it's not as much a "rulebook" or "guidebook" than it is an introduction to a Person. If that weren't the case, then why all the history? Why not a list of rules and guidelines (things that are vastly outnumbered by narrative, history, and poetry)?

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Chesty_Puller LNF Intern6 Live free or die Posts: 9	Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors Reply #105 - Oct 30^th, 2009, 2:35am I respectfully disagree with the Bible as a total rule book Yes the old Testament is the law but the new testament is the promise fullfilled and of the reward for faithfullness The basis for salvation is to beleive and you will be saved
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IMPEACH BARACK OBAMA

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Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors
Reply #106 - Dec 12^th, 2009, 7:48pm

Quote from John_Galt on Sep 28^th, 2009, 3:49pm:

Since, as I have been informed, this is a forum for Christians, I thought this would be a good place to pose this question.

I am a Deist, however, my wife is a rather devout Lutheran. Recently the ELCA (Evangelican Lutheran Church in America) voted to allow, for lack of a better term, non-celibate Gay Pastors to preach in ELCA churches. Apparently, this has caused a lot of dissent in the member churches of the ELCA - my wife's being but one. Her church council has voted to leave the ELCA and it will shortly be put to a vote for the general congregation - it is almost assured to pass.

The amazing thing is, that from what I can see, my wife's church is pretty much the epitome of Liberal Christianity - fairly ozzing with Political Correctness! (One of the reason I feel less than comfortable there). So when they voted to leave the ELCA over the issue of Gay Pastors, I was dumbfounded to say the least!

So, my question to the good Christians of this board is... Do you approve of non-celibate gay pastor in your particular church? I find that many Christians have no problem with Gay Pastors in other peoples churches, but when it comes to their own church, that's the proverbial horse of a different color.

I'm not here to try and convince someone one way or another, nor am I here to judge. I'm just interested in how Christians view this subject.

Thanks,
-JG

No more than I would approve of a non-celibate heterosexual pastor who is not married.

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IMPEACH BARACK OBAMA Hardhat Conservative Caucus Posts: 30654 Gender:	Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors Reply #107 - Dec 12^th, 2009, 7:54pm Quote from PathFinder on Sep 29^th, 2009, 9:55am: I just have one question: If he is celibate, how can we tell that he's gay? IOW, isn't the phrase "non-celibate gay" a little bit of a pleonasm? In my opinion it would be like one who is a recovering alcoholic. He'll always be an alcoholic even if he doesn't drink.
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IMPEACH BARACK OBAMA Hardhat Conservative Caucus Posts: 30654 Gender:	Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors Reply #108 - Dec 12^th, 2009, 7:57pm Quote from PathFinder on Oct 1^st, 2009, 7:02pm: That's revolting! In the eyes of God, would it be better that he be physically involved with a man>
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IMPEACH BARACK OBAMA

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Re: Non-celibate Gay Pastors
Reply #109 - Dec 12^th, 2009, 8:00pm

Quote from PathFinder on Oct 2^nd, 2009, 3:15pm:

So he's a gay man not bi in love with a lesbian (not bi?) and in order for them to have sex they have to pretend that the other one is of the opposite gender that he/she actually is.

That happens everyday, doesn't it?

So for the simpler gays who actually fall in love with people of their own gender there is no way for them to be accepted in your church?

Don’t you find the whole idea a little perverse?

If they were a heterosexual couple living together without benefit of marriage, they wouldn't be accepted in the church either......or at least not in conservative churches. It's like with any sin, if you willingly continue in your sin, you're not living biblically. Conservative churches wont' allow membership if someone is living in any kind of sin willingly.

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