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Simple Man LNF Senior Staffer Contentment is the key to peace. Posts: 115 Gender:	Re: A wedding during the morning worship service? Reply #20 - Dec 15^th, 2009, 10:44am There was a sermon. We do not have public invitations most weeks -- this was no different.
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IMPEACH BARACK OBAMA Hardhat Conservative Caucus Posts: 30654 Gender:	Re: A wedding during the morning worship service? Reply #21 - Dec 15^th, 2009, 3:32pm Quote from Simple Man on Dec 15^th, 2009, 10:44am: There was a sermon. We do not have public invitations most weeks -- this was no different. Your church doesn't give invitations? Oh, OK. Then I can see why a wedding was part of the service.
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Mercy For All

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Re: A wedding during the morning worship service?
Reply #22 - Dec 15^th, 2009, 7:25pm

Quote from MONTANA on Dec 15^th, 2009, 3:32pm:

Your church doesn't give invitations? Oh, OK. Then I can see why a wedding was part of the service.

How many invitations did Jesus give?

People counting on their pastor to "give an invitation" dilute evangelism from "introducing people to Jesus" to "inviting people to church" so the pastor can do the work of the church. The pastor is not responsible to do the work of the church; the pastor's role is to train the church to do the work of the church. You can bet that under persecution (a la the early church a few decades in), nobody was inviting a non-Christian to a Christian service. They would only bring new converts.

It's high time more invitations to Jesus took place outside church services than inside church services.

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Re: A wedding during the morning worship service?
Reply #23 - Dec 15^th, 2009, 7:58pm

Quote from Mercy For All on Dec 15^th, 2009, 7:25pm:

How many invitations did Jesus give?

People counting on their pastor to "give an invitation" dilute evangelism from "introducing people to Jesus" to "inviting people to church" so the pastor can do the work of the church. The pastor is not responsible to do the work of the church; the pastor's role is to train the church to do the work of the church. You can bet that under persecution (a la the early church a few decades in), nobody was inviting a non-Christian to a Christian service. They would only bring new converts.

It's high time more invitations to Jesus took place outside church services than inside church services.

Why not both? The church I was in on the east coast had a soul winning campaign. We'd go out once a week in the evenings and then on Saturday mornings.

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Mercy For All

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Re: A wedding during the morning worship service?
Reply #24 - Dec 15^th, 2009, 9:53pm

Quote from MONTANA on Dec 15^th, 2009, 7:58pm:

Why not both? The church I was in on the east coast had a soul winning campaign. We'd go out once a week in the evenings and then on Saturday mornings.

Nothing wrong with both. My experience is that if it happens every Sunday, generally the average person doesn't share his/her faith because they expect the pastor to do it. I know I used to act that way.

I know, I have strong opinions about this.

I also find that long-term relationships do better than one-time sales pitches. I think that's why the Alpha program is doing well. It lets people process. Someone once said that the means by which someone comes to Christ can determine the nature of their Christianity--if it's an intellectual sales pitch, they become an intellectual Christian; if it's a shallow, manipulative sales pitch, they become a shallow Christian, etc.

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Re: A wedding during the morning worship service?
Reply #25 - Dec 15^th, 2009, 11:40pm

Quote from Mercy For All on Dec 15^th, 2009, 9:53pm:

Nothing wrong with both. My experience is that if it happens every Sunday, generally the average person doesn't share his/her faith because they expect the pastor to do it. I know I used to act that way.

I know, I have strong opinions about this.

When we have an altar call, it's because the message struck home in our hearts and we come up to the altar in a public profession. And those who choose to accept the Lord as Savior come up and at that point a worker can take them aside and lead them to the Lord.

Quote:

I also find that long-term relationships do better than one-time sales pitches. I think that's why the Alpha program is doing well. It lets people process. Someone once said that the means by which someone comes to Christ can determine the nature of their Christianity--if it's an intellectual sales pitch, they become an intellectual Christian; if it's a shallow, manipulative sales pitch, they become a shallow Christian, etc.

I'm really not understanding this. Are you referring to those saved here or those needing to be saved? If the latter, the gift of salvation is not a process but an acceptance of one's sinful state and the need for salvation.

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Simple Man

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Re: A wedding during the morning worship service?
Reply #26 - Dec 16^th, 2009, 8:45am

Quote from MONTANA on Dec 15^th, 2009, 3:32pm:

Your church doesn't give invitations? Oh, OK. Then I can see why a wedding was part of the service.

You've got a lot of nerve to judge a church that you know absolutely nothing about. I take offense at your comment. It reads very self-righteous like. Are you suggesting a church that does not give altar calls is somehow "less than"? I doubt most Gospel preaching churches across the globe do so. It seems to be a 19th and 20th century Western revivalism approach that has somehow been made "the norm". I contend that a church which does it is the one that is out of step with the New Testament's understanding of worship and faith.

Show me one place in the New Testament or early church documents where the early church (that turned the world upside down) gave altar calls in their worship services.

I attend an Evangelical church that leans very much to the conservative side and takes the Great Commission seriously. We recently baptized 27 who came to faith in Christ. It was a GREAT celebration of new life.

Just because it isn't done the way you or your tradition does it does not mean the Gospel is not being proclaimed and restoring lives. You really should rethink this concept; for the world's sake.

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Mercy For All

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Re: A wedding during the morning worship service?
Reply #27 - Dec 16^th, 2009, 9:40am

Quote from MONTANA on Dec 15^th, 2009, 11:40pm:

When we have an altar call, it's because the message struck home in our hearts and we come up to the altar in a public profession. And those who choose to accept the Lord as Savior come up and at that point a worker can take them aside and lead them to the Lord.

Yes. I grew up in a church like that under a pastor who is now working for the Billy Graham association (I believe he was just invited to be the plenary speaker at their big to-do this year). I am very familiar with the process.

To his credit, we would see at least two or three people responding weekly in our church. I remember at the end of one year we had a celebration and the question was asked, "How many people accepted Jesus in this church in the past year?" There were maybe 30 hands up.

If you do the math, you'll see there had to be at least 120 people missing. Where did they go?

Quote:

I'm really not understanding this. Are you referring to those saved here or those needing to be saved? If the latter, the gift of salvation is not a process but an acceptance of one's sinful state and the need for salvation.

Except that coming to that point is a process. I grew up with youth outreaches where the whole motive was to put on a big, attractive show and then sneak in a Gospel message somewhere in there. Sometimes, people were told not to leave during that part! So kids come to a show and then get barraged with an unexpected sales pitch. That's a bait-and-switch. No wonder people are cynical towards churches in North America!

People were in ministry were afraid to hold an event without a hard-sell Gospel pitch for fear that they would be held accountable for that one person that might walk out and get hit by a bus. And what happened was a "fire insurance" sales pitch--turn to God or you'll burn in hell forever. That's the "good news"!

I heard a story of a man who worked as a missionary with a native Indian tribe for years and years without seeing results. Naturally, he became very frustrated. He talked to a native elder one night and asked why he couldn't seem to get anywhere. The elder replied, "My brothers are watching you. They will see how you live your life. Then, when you are dead, they will consider whether your message was worth listening to."

In our efforts to "make converts," we have missed an important factor: relationship. God is a relational God. But we've "sold" fire insurance.

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