Liberty News Forum - Political News Forum

Mercy For All LNF Moderator The Writer's Croft LNF Bunker Offline Be completely alive until you're completely dead. Posts: 36,963 Gender:	Does God's forgiveness depend on... Nov 27^th, 2007 at 8:08pm ...our repentance?
Back to top	IP Logged

sister_in_Jesus

LNF Senior Staffer4

Offline

Saved by grace

Posts: 479
Ohio
Gender: female

Re: Does God's forgiveness depend on...
Reply #1 - Nov 27^th, 2007 at 11:22pm

Mercy For All wrote on Nov 27^th, 2007 at 8:08pm:

...our repentance?

Yes, but even our repentance is not something that we can do naturally. Without God drawing us to repent, there is no salvation. Conviction of sin, willingness to change and the gift of faith to believe in Jesus's finished work as payment for our sins, is the work of the Holy Spirit.

Back to top

The difference you make in others will never be more than the difference Jesus Christ makes in you.

IP Logged

She-Ra Senior Member Offline I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 280 Etheria Gender:	Re: Does God's forgiveness depend on... Reply #2 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:57am Mercy For All wrote on Nov 27^th, 2007 at 8:08pm: ...our repentance? Yes. You can't forgive a person who doesn't ask for it, after all.
Back to top	A true patriot cares principly about his or her own country... not about the nation-building of OTHER countries. IP Logged

Mercy For All LNF Moderator The Writer's Croft LNF Bunker Offline Be completely alive until you're completely dead. Posts: 36,963 Gender:	Re: Does God's forgiveness depend on... Reply #3 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 2:41pm She-Ra wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:57am: Yes. You can't forgive a person who doesn't ask for it, after all. Yes, you can.
Back to top	IP Logged

She-Ra

Senior Member

Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 280
Etheria
Gender: female

Re: Does God's forgiveness depend on...
Reply #4 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 4:05pm

Mercy For All wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 2:41pm:

Yes, you can.

No, you can't. If a person doesn't ask for forgiveness, how do you know that s/he's sorry? You can't forgive a person who's not sorry for what s/he's done.

It's a fairly basic situation...

Man A: I forgive you for cheating on your wife.

Man B: I'm not sorry for cheating on my wife. She's been a terrible wife for years. There's nothing to forgive!

You can't forgive a person who feels no guilt or shame over the action that s/he has taken, and there's no way to know for sure if there is such guilt or shame if the person who feels it doesn't admit it outloud (i.e. show genuine repentence).

Being merciful to a person isn't the same as being forgiving to a person. I can be merciful to a person who kills a close family member simply by choosing to not try to have him prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. However, I can't forgive him for what he's done if he feels no guilt over what he's done whatsoever.

Back to top

A true patriot cares principly about his or her own country... not about the nation-building of OTHER countries.

IP Logged

sister_in_Jesus

LNF Senior Staffer4

Offline

Saved by grace

Posts: 479
Ohio
Gender: female

Re: Does God's forgiveness depend on...
Reply #5 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:27pm

Mercy For All wrote on Nov 27^th, 2007 at 8:08pm:

...our repentance?

Looking at your question again, I have a question.

Are you speaking of God's forgiveness which results in 'salvation' or God's forgiveness for a particular sin (crime)?

I was thinking of how Jesus asked the Father to forgive those that were crucifing him.
Do you believe that the Father forgave them (no repentance there)? Jesus had a forgiving heart toward them and surely His prayer was not said in vain. Perhaps Jesus was praying for the nation of Israel for not recognizing their Messiah. That may be an example of God's forgiveness without repentance.

And how about the lame man that was lowered through a hole in the roof by his friends, he didn't repent and yet Jesus said his sins were forgiven and healed him to show His (Jesus) authority on earth to forgive sins.

Back to top

The difference you make in others will never be more than the difference Jesus Christ makes in you.

IP Logged

Mercy For All

LNF Moderator
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker

Offline

Be completely alive until
you're completely dead.

Posts: 36,963
Gender: male

Re: Does God's forgiveness depend on...
Reply #6 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:32pm

She-Ra wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 4:05pm:

No, you can't. If a person doesn't ask for forgiveness, how do you know that s/he's sorry? You can't forgive a person who's not sorry for what s/he's done.

It's a fairly basic situation...

Man A: I forgive you for cheating on your wife.

Man B: I'm not sorry for cheating on my wife. She's been a terrible wife for years. There's nothing to forgive!

You can't forgive a person who feels no guilt or shame over the action that s/he has taken, and there's no way to know for sure if there is such guilt or shame if the person who feels it doesn't admit it outloud (i.e. show genuine repentence).

Being merciful to a person isn't the same as being forgiving to a person. I can be merciful to a person who kills a close family member simply by choosing to not try to have him prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. However, I can't forgive him for what he's done if he feels no guilt over what he's done whatsoever.

No. Forgiveness is not dependent on remorse.

Forgiveness does more for the victim than the offender. If the offender has no remorse, does that relegate the victim to a prison of unforgiveness? Is it impossible to forgive someone who's dead?

Back to top

IP Logged

Mercy For All

LNF Moderator
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker

Offline

Be completely alive until
you're completely dead.

Posts: 36,963
Gender: male

Re: Does God's forgiveness depend on...
Reply #7 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:33pm

sister_in_Jesus wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:27pm:

Looking at your question again, I have a question.

Are you speaking of God's forgiveness which results in 'salvation' or God's forgiveness for a particular sin (crime)?

I was thinking of how Jesus asked the Father to forgive those that were crucifing him.
Do you believe that the Father forgave them (no repentance there)? Jesus had a forgiving heart toward them and surely His prayer was not said in vain. Perhaps Jesus was praying for the nation of Israel for not recognizing their Messiah. That may be an example of God's forgiveness without repentance.

And how about the lame man that was lowered through a hole in the roof by his friends, he didn't repent and yet Jesus said his sins were forgiven and healed him to show His (Jesus) authority on earth to forgive sins.

Exactly. I had never thought of it that way until recently. I think that God forgives because of Christ's death on the cross. The choice we have doesn't "change" God's forgiveness.

Back to top

IP Logged

sister_in_Jesus

LNF Senior Staffer4

Offline

Saved by grace

Posts: 479
Ohio
Gender: female

Re: Does God's forgiveness depend on...
Reply #8 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 11:06pm

Mercy For All wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:33pm:

Exactly. I had never thought of it that way until recently. I think that God forgives because of Christ's death on the cross. The choice we have doesn't "change" God's forgiveness.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the choice we have". What choice? The choice of faith, the choice of repentance?
Are you talking about the choice we have after salvation - to sin or not sin? I would agree that even if we choose to commit a sin and not repent (telling a lie, being angry at someone, etc), God's forgiveness does not change because God's forgiveness is not based on what we do or don't do but on what Christ has done.

Back to top

The difference you make in others will never be more than the difference Jesus Christ makes in you.

IP Logged

She-Ra

Senior Member

Offline

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Posts: 280
Etheria
Gender: female

Re: Does God's forgiveness depend on...
Reply #9 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 11:46pm

Mercy For All wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:32pm:

No. Forgiveness is not dependent on remorse.

An offer of forgiveness may not be dependent on remorse, but the transfer of forgiveness is.

I can presume that someone is sorry for something that they did wrong (though I would not make such presumptions with people who I don't know well and/or doubt would feel such remorse), and offer them forgiveness. They can either choose to be remorseful and accept that forgiveness, or they can reject it.

If forgiveness has been rejected, then it has not been applied.

Indeed, that is one of the central points of our Christian faith, is it not? That if one does not accept God's gift of forgiveness, then they lack forgiveness, and can't enter into Heaven?

All the mainstream Christian denominations place a great emphasis on atonement, and repentence. This makes no sense at all if applied forgiveness exists with out repentence/remorse.

Quote:

Forgiveness does more for the victim than the offender. If the offender has no remorse, does that relegate the victim to a prison of unforgiveness?

A prison of unforgiveness?

Why should we want to forgive a person who feels no remorse for an evil deed that s/he's done?

Such a person has done evil, and is unrepentent over it.

I think that you need to balance some basic sense of justice with your sense of mercy, MercyForAll.

Quote:

Is it impossible to forgive someone who's dead?

Can you offer something to a dead man?

Back to top

A true patriot cares principly about his or her own country... not about the nation-building of OTHER countries.

IP Logged