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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What Is A Conservative? (Read 18,232 times)
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Re: What Is A Conservative?
Reply #20 - Oct 4th, 2008 at 8:09am
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There are few true conservatives left. Conservatives of the Jeffersonian
tradition.
  

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Re: What Is A Conservative?
Reply #21 - Oct 4th, 2008 at 8:18am
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I am in my fundamental premise an ante-Enlightenment conservative.  I reject, as articulated in both Locke and Hobbes, although obviously in different ways, the "autonomous individual" - an abstraction with abstract rights.  From my premise, there are very few conservatives today because both liberals and so-called conservatives, left and right, Democrats and Republicans, embrace and affirm the artificial and abstract notion of the autonomous individual along with his abstract rights.  The so-called left and right differ only how the polity of a non-society, i.e. a mass of autonomous individuals, is to be configured.  

My position is that all persons have their being and their worth in relationships expressed in the commonwealths into which they are born: as creatures of God, as members of a family, as members of the Church and as members of local communities along with the sub-commonwealths of those.  A true conservative is therefore is one who recognizes that any real meaning to life is to fulfill the obligations of the commonwealths into which he is born.  He is more concerned about his obligations to God - love God with all your heart, mind and body; his obligations to his parents - honor your parents that your days may be long upon the earth; to his wife - you and your wife shall be one flesh and what God hath joined together let no man put asunder as well as to his children and the rest of his kin; to his Church, which itself is the body and the bride of the Christ, and finally to the kith of his community.  An ante-Enlightenment conservative values the assets necessary to fulfill the obligations to the commonwealths to which he belongs.  He values a sense of oughtness which mitigates his compulsions and quest for his necessities over those of others; he has prudence; he has courage; he has temperance and ultimately justice in his dealings with others.  He has a sense of connectedness to place and people.  When he goes among strangers his first questions tend to be, "Where are you from?"  and "Who are your people?"  He is always questing for kinsmen and for those who know the dear kith.  Such a conservative is primarily focused on his own obligations and not on some set of abstract rights.  He is not questing to reform others through some "noble cause" such as "saving the world for democracy."  When such a conservative becomes political, it is indeed as a reactionary: he minds his own business - pleasing God, adoring his wife, carrying for his parents, nurturing and loving his children, rendering service to his Church and tending to his responsibilities in his local community.  He become "political" when someone attempts to undermine or destroy one of his commonwealths or attempts to interfere with their goings on.  He is not a Luddite; however, he is not a slave or worshiper of progress, of technology or of ways which take him too far from the soil, from hunting and gathering, and from the love of God, of family, of Church and of local community.

His antithesis is actually not the autonomous individual, who is a myth, but the alienated individual: the one who has bought into the myth of the autonomous individual and who by that myth has cut himself off from God, from family, from Church, from kith and from local community.  The alienated individual has a left and right form.  The right form of the alienated individual is the one who has "conservative values" but lives an alienated lifestyle like Newt Gingrich.  The left version in embodied in Brittney Spears or Barney Frank.

Beggeist, if I may say so, you sound like an Edmund Burke type conservative..  I think the conservatives today are in reality liberals, but not liberals in how the word is used today.  I believe conservatives today adhere to 'classic liberalism,' especilly when it comes to individualism and economic liberty.  The conservative of the 18-19 century is not the "reagan type' conservative we are familiar with today.
  
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joe_christian
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Re: What Is A Conservative?
Reply #22 - Oct 4th, 2008 at 8:42am
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Membership in a church or an organized religion is not a requirement to be a Conservative. A Conservative strongly believes as it states in Article VI the second paragraph of our Constitution;

Article VI needs to be amendend because Christians cannot TRUST atheists in government.  Cool

  
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Re: What Is A Conservative?
Reply #23 - Oct 4th, 2008 at 8:45am
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           This is a good post Solar, especially considering many so called conservatives seem to be having some kind of identity crisis.  I think there is some big differences in the conservative of early US and the conservative of present day.  Some people on here would argue that not really any original conservatives exist today and I respect their opinion.  Lets not forget that the conservative of yesterday were the one's who wouldnt have minded if America inherit some sort of aristocracy similar to England.  Conservatives today would reject any such notion of an inherited power.  The conservatives of yesterday were not anti-individual right's but they did believe that a strong secure governing power was required for a successful nation.  Today, conservatives would also reject this believing that government is best when it is as weak as possible, only strong enough to secure individual rights (such as the bill of rights).  (Most) Conservatives of yesterday believed that religon should play a role in the business of the state, today they would reject religous interference with the state preferring religon to remain strong in the individual. 
           
      Conservatives of today and yesterday do not share the same beliefs.  I believe they are conservatives in relation to the time era of the day. Some would argue it isn't correct for self proclaimed conservatives to be called conservatives today.   I respect this notion but disagree, it is just a different time because many things have changed over the past couple hundred years.  I think that a conservative today is a liberal in the definition of classic liberalism.  This applies to economic, religious, and governmental beliefs.  Conservatives today have things in common with the beliefs of Hamilton, Jefferson, Madison, but they do not have everything in common with each.  Modern conservatives get their beliefs from both the liberals and conservatives of the late 18th century and early 19th century.   I guess we could be called a mut.   Grin 

   There is though no doubt that there are major differences between a conservative and a progressive lib.  The two are diametrically opposed concering most issues.  Now if you want to talk about dems and repubs, thats a different story.  Chosing between the two parties is sometimes like chosing coke or pepsi.  I mean hell look at McCain.   Grin
  
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Re: What Is A Conservative?
Reply #24 - Oct 4th, 2008 at 8:52am
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Locke and Hobbs, awesome....  Someday I want to just lock myself in a library and just read all of them. Of all I have read, there is so much more....  I need to get back to how I was.

Locke and Hobbes paved the way for the American, French and Russian Revolutions plus national/international socialism.

  
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Re: What Is A Conservative?
Reply #25 - Oct 4th, 2008 at 8:57am
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HarleyWoman wrote on Oct 4th, 2008 at 2:18am:
I also believe in life, and the blessings it brings,  sometimes along with heartache. So I am also pro-life.

A true conservative has to be pro-life.

Democrats are the Party of Death.

  
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Re: What Is A Conservative?
Reply #26 - Oct 4th, 2008 at 12:14pm
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I wish to add some to that Berggeist has said and do not pretend to express something been forgotten, just some thoughts.
Conservative attributes do not mean “standing for”. A conservative lives and follow to traditions first then think over questions “who I am?”, “why I am?”. Actually these traditions made human society – being a member of a family, nation or a community which mean having mutual interests, giving personal time and efforts to community and benefiting thereafter. Only people’s community helped a man of the past to survive. It’s way of living in community which caused a human to ask for things like “what the good is?” and “what the bad is?“ and a lot of “why?”. All the conservative attributes mentioned aimed to support that way of living, to save a community and therefore to save its people. It’s often sensed conservativeness as something opposing to progress. Actually such way of living rise not just spiritual pursuit but progress to. Unlike to traditional community which is society the sum of “autonomous individuals” didn’t produce the concepts of “good”, “bad”, “kindness”, “justice”, “fairness” and the like. Historically “autonomous individuals” just dissolved human societies causing them to decline because they substituted these concepts by “selfishness” and “self-profit”.
  

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Re: What Is A Conservative?
Reply #27 - Oct 4th, 2008 at 12:28pm
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joe_christian wrote on Oct 4th, 2008 at 8:57am:
A true conservative has to be pro-life.

Democrats are the Party of Death.


Not totally. Only the Party of Death for babies...
  

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Solar Executive Troll
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Re: What Is A Conservative?
Reply #28 - Oct 4th, 2008 at 12:35pm
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joe_christian wrote on Oct 4th, 2008 at 8:42am:
Article VI needs to be amendend because Christians cannot TRUST atheists in government.  Cool


Well said Jason! Cool
I agree that we could be classified as classic libs of the past, but it should be noted, that back then, they were all in agreement that even the tiniest hint of socialism would be death for the fledgling Country.
Now what we have is Conservatives and libs in the Pub party, and socialists in the Dim party.
There is no longer a gray line.
  
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Re: What Is A Conservative?
Reply #29 - Oct 4th, 2008 at 12:36pm
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He thinks it's important enough that it should not fall down to Page 2?
Lots of action here; threads fall down.
For a reason.
Tongue


Apparently, I'm not the only one! Tongue Tongue
  
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