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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) body/blood (Read 3,779 times)
fair-minded know it all
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Re: body/blood
Reply #10 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 7:19pm
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sister_in_Jesus wrote on Oct 18th, 2008 at 3:45pm:
Participation is an act of obedience and is purely symbolic of His body that was broken for us and His blood that was shed to cover our sins.


I'm not sure I complete agree. Participation is about coming to receive what's given freely. It's the epitome of
gospel, not "thing we do as Christians." I believe that through the preaching of the word and the receiving of
the sacraments the gift of faith and the gifts stemming from Christ's work is in some mysterious way given to us.
  

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sister_in_Jesus
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Re: body/blood
Reply #11 - Oct 23rd, 2008 at 9:33pm
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I'm not sure I complete agree. Participation is about coming to receive what's given freely. It's the epitome of
gospel, not "thing we do as Christians." I believe that through the preaching of the word and the receiving of
the sacraments the gift of faith and the gifts stemming from Christ's work is in some mysterious way given to us.


Hi fair minded. It's ok if you don't completely agree  Smiley but let me make sure I am understanding what you are saying. It sounds to me like you believe that partaking of the Lord's supper is somehow related to (is part of) salvation? Is that correct?
First I want you to know that I don't look at it as just a "thing that I do as a Christian', I approach this ordinance with much reverance and prayer. It's a time of reflecting upon what Jesus did for me, how He took the punishment that I rightfully deserve and He did that because He loves me...that is amazing and I stand in awe of Him.
Jesus said, "do this in remembrance of me". In other words, 'Do this -- to remind yourself of who I am and what I have done for you'. Jesus commanded it and we obey His commandment, not to be saved, but because we love Him. Jesus himself said, If you love me, keep my commandments. I do think it is symbolic but I also understand their are some who think it is more and I respect that. I believe the Bible tells us that salvation comes through grace alone and is not something we can earn by doing things. In Titus 3:5 we are told,
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Blessings
  

The difference you make in others will never be more than the difference Jesus Christ makes in you.
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fair-minded know it all
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Re: body/blood
Reply #12 - Oct 23rd, 2008 at 9:51pm
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sister_in_Jesus wrote on Oct 23rd, 2008 at 9:33pm:
Hi fair minded. It's ok if you don't completely agree  Smiley but let me make sure I am understanding what you are saying. It sounds to me like you believe that partaking of the Lord's supper is somehow related to (is part of) salvation? Is that correct?
First I want you to know that I don't look at it as just a "thing that I do as a Christian', I approach this ordinance with much reverance and prayer. It's a time of reflecting upon what Jesus did for me, how He took the punishment that I rightfully deserve and He did that because He loves me...that is amazing and I stand in awe of Him.
Jesus said, "do this in remembrance of me". In other words, 'Do this -- to remind yourself of who I am and what I have done for you'. Jesus commanded it and we obey His commandment, not to be saved, but because we love Him. Jesus himself said, If you love me, keep my commandments. I do think it is symbolic but I also understand their are some who think it is more and I respect that. I believe the Bible tells us that salvation comes through grace alone and is not something we can earn by doing things. In Titus 3:5 we are told,
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit,

Blessings


True He said "do this in remembrance of me". But that's not all the NT has to say about the sacraments. A thorough and systematic study seems to suggest it's more than just a memorial service. It's a means of strengthening faith. There's some mystery involved, it must be
approached reverently because it's more than just a symbol. Early church members died "according to the Apostle Paul" because of handling this sacrament irreverently.
  

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Re: body/blood
Reply #13 - Oct 24th, 2008 at 12:11am
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True He said "do this in remembrance of me". But that's not all the NT has to say about the sacraments. A thorough and systematic study seems to suggest it's more than just a memorial service. It's a means of strengthening faith. There's some mystery involved, it must be
approached reverently because it's more than just a symbol. Early church members died "according to the Apostle Paul" because of handling this sacrament irreverently.


I think there are two misconceptions here.

First, Paul always uses the word "mystery" to describe something that was hidden but is now revealed.

Secondly, the context of 1 Corinthians suggests that it is not about "partaking irreverently," but about the treatment of the poor within the Church.  Paul says we must "recognize the body."  What does that mean?  I think it's more than obvious in the context.  He says:

1)  You are meeting together for meals.
2)  The poor are being treated unfairly.
3)  The meal you are sharing is the bread and wine--the memorial supper.
4)  You are not recognizing the Body of Christ--i.e., that the poor present at the meal are part of the Body of Christ.  He's not talking about a piece of bread.
  

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Re: body/blood
Reply #14 - Oct 24th, 2008 at 11:44am
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Thanks for the replies everyone.

The Truth is the Truth is the Truth and meaning thereof should be understood.

The Lord Jesus did not tell us to do this as some ceremonial obligation, nor should there be added to it that which it is not. It is to be remembered to not be forgotten and it is to be contemplated in the remembrance of. For in it, the contemplation in the remembrance of is the mystery known.

It is that which your are to receive, for the Lord did not do it any other way but the Way He did it. For He does in His Way and no other. It is the act of God in the flesh to separate the Life of the body from the body by the power of the Holy Spirit. Of which the Word of God has authority. The dead were raised the sick were healed and the lunacy cast out by the power of the Holy Spirit of which the Word of God the Life of the body of Christ has authority. For man lives by every Word the precedes out of the mouth of God.

What separates you from the destiny of the body you posses is the power of the Holy Spirit, which we are to be born of and live and walk in, surly that is not our life but the Life of Christ. Of which the Word of God Jesus has authority. Are we not to receive His Life in the sacrifice of our own. Are we not to receive the Will of God in Jesus in the sacrifice of our own will. “Not my will but thy will be done”.

It is the Holy Spirit that separates us from the dead. Do to the Life of the Body of Christ that was separated from the body of Christ and to be rejoined in us  as manifested in His resurrection of the body of Christ.
It is the separation of the Son from the Father in the Son’s bearing of the sins of the world that separates man from God

Mt:27:46: And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Jn:20:17: Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

And rejoining with the Father in the perfect body resurrected.

That the Life of the Son is the Life of the Father that death could not hold the power of the Holy Spirit. That was rejoined to the perfect body that did not sin, though it bore the sins of the world. The like body that we shall receive. But only by the power of the Holy Spirit in us shall this be done for to survive the wrath of God is to have the Life of the body of Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit and to receive the body of Christ only by the Holy Spirit of which Jesus Christ has the authority of. Hence His sayings on the subject “I Know You Not”.


And rejoining with the Father in the perfect body resurrected that is acceptable to the Father. That has allowed us to be born of the Father while yet in the flesh that is destined otherwise.


Jn:16:7: Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

  

&&&&A citizen in need of changing his ways. For as it has been said by one much wiser: “The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.”
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fair-minded know it all
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Re: body/blood
Reply #15 - Oct 24th, 2008 at 8:52pm
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I think there are two misconceptions here.

First, Paul always uses the word "mystery" to describe something that was hidden but is now revealed.

Secondly, the context of 1 Corinthians suggests that it is not about "partaking irreverently," but about the treatment of the poor within the Church.  Paul says we must "recognize the body."  What does that mean?  I think it's more than obvious in the context.  He says:

1)  You are meeting together for meals.
2)  The poor are being treated unfairly.
3)  The meal you are sharing is the bread and wine--the memorial supper.
4)  You are not recognizing the Body of Christ--i.e., that the poor present at the meal are part of the Body of Christ.  He's not talking about a piece of bread.


Interesting. I'll have to reread some of those texts. I immediately agree with everything you wrote except #4.
  

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Re: body/blood
Reply #16 - Oct 24th, 2008 at 9:35pm
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Interesting. I'll have to reread some of those texts. I immediately agree with everything you wrote except #4.


Numbers 1-5 are certainly different from the way I was brought up--communion was personal and individual; a soul-searching moment to see if there were any outstanding sin that would prevent you from being acceptable to God and confessing it before he strikes you dead.  What a far cry from the basic reading of the text!

About number 4, let's see if I can justify it:

1 Corinthians 11:17-19

"In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God's approval."

At this point, Paul is talking about a "Love Feast"--a meeting where the Christians shared a communal meal.  It's only in the next verse that he mention's "Lord's Supper."

1 Corinthians 11:20-22

"When you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat, for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. Don't you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you for this? Certainly not!"

This is the first mention, I believe, of the "Lord's Supper" not being the Passover meal.  This is the first mention of gentiles participating in something like this, rather than Jews.  So Paul is saying that this meal is enough to feed someone and get someone drunk.  But it seems he's saying that if they are ignoring the poor, they may as well be eating their meals on their own.

He's saying that the meal should be recognized as the Lord's Supper.

It could be a stretch, I know...
  

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