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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Love of God (Read 11,506 times)
sherha
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The Love of God
Oct 22nd, 2008 at 9:19pm
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We, certainly, cannot trust in the emotions of our own hearts to determine if we love God and others:

"Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths.  For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.

Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death." Pro 7:25-27.

What does the Scripture tell us about loving God and others?

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.

Jesus said, "He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father, and I will love him, and will manifest Myself to him." John 14:21.

When Jesus gave us the "Two Greatest Commandments," He was quoting the law. Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18:

"By this we know that we love the children of God (Greatest Commandment #2), when we love God (#1) and keep His commandments.  For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2,3.

"And this is love, that we walk after His commandments." 2 John 6.

His church keeps His commandments: "And the Dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."  Rev 12:17.

His saints keep His commandments: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12.

"As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions ("of the law" 1 John 3:4) from us...TO SUCH AS KEEP HIS COVENANT AND TO THOSE THAT REMEMBER HIS COMMANDMENTS TO DO THEM." Ps 103.

Covenants have conditions.

Even in heaven, the Lord makes quite a statement about His Covenant:

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple The Ark of His Testament: and there were LIGHTNINGS, and VOICES, and THUNDERINGS, and AN EARTHQUAKE, and GREAT HAIL."  Rev 11:19.

At the very end of the Book of all books, the Apostle John wrote, "Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city."  Rev 22:14.
  
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Re: The Love of God
Reply #1 - Oct 22nd, 2008 at 11:31pm
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Yes.  But you can't mix covenants.  The covenant with God based on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is not the same as the Mosaic Covenant. 

So it can be tricky to proof-text mixing OT and NT passages.
  

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Re: The Love of God
Reply #2 - Oct 26th, 2008 at 9:44am
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Yes.  But you can't mix covenants.  The covenant with God based on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is not the same as the Mosaic Covenant.  

So it can be tricky to proof-text mixing OT and NT passages.

The Old and New Covenants are only separated by a period of time.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness and cannot be broken."

http://bible.cc/2_timothy/3-16.htm

http://www.earstohear.net/Kingdom/word.html

When these words were written the main body of scripture was from the Old Testament.

Christians cannot split God's Word in two and only worship the Son, while claiming that the Father's Word in the OT is of no consequence or effect, as if abolished.

  
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Re: The Love of God
Reply #3 - Oct 26th, 2008 at 2:40pm
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joe_christian wrote on Oct 26th, 2008 at 9:44am:
The Old and New Covenants are only separated by a period of time.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness and cannot be broken."

http://bible.cc/2_timothy/3-16.htm

http://www.earstohear.net/Kingdom/word.html

When these words were written the main body of scripture was from the Old Testament.

Christians cannot split God's Word in two and only worship the Son, while claiming that the Father's Word in the OT is of no consequence or effect, as if abolished.



"Only worship the Son"?  Where do you get that?

If you're under Mosaic law (which itself is a product of the Mosaic covenant), then you'd better obey all of that law, as Paul says in Galatians.  Are you circumcised?  Do you practise the Seder mean annually?  Yom Kippur?  You don't eat pork, do you?  Do you wear clothes made with mixed fabrics?

You talk about "splitting God's word."  Not happening here.

On the other hand, I suspect that it is you that is wanting to pick and choose which of the Mosaic laws you want to keep/enforce, and which laws you don't want to keep/enforce.

Paul says if you want to keep some, you have to keep it all.
  

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Re: The Love of God
Reply #4 - Oct 26th, 2008 at 5:24pm
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"Only worship the Son"?  Where do you get that?

If you worship the Father you don't abolish His law.

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If you're under Mosaic law (which itself is a product of the Mosaic covenant), then you'd better obey all of that law, as Paul says in Galatians.  Are you circumcised?  Do you practise the Seder mean annually?  Yom Kippur?  You don't eat pork, do you?  Do you wear clothes made with mixed fabrics?

The OP points out the difference between the ceremonial law and the civil law. As Christians we are not bound to abide by the old ceremonial laws of worship.  That does not give us the right to invalidate or abolish God's civil law since the ministers of it are appointed by God for our own benefit.

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You talk about "splitting God's word."  Not happening here.

On the other hand, I suspect that it is you that is wanting to pick and choose which of the Mosaic laws you want to keep/enforce, and which laws you don't want to keep/enforce.

Paul says if you want to keep some, you have to keep it all.

As a lawyer, Paul establishes the law throughout his writings but I don't think he made any new laws for Jews and Christians to abide by.  Cool

The word 'religion' means to bind together, and the law is a system under which we are bound. Take your choice - God's law or Satan's.

Without God's law there can be no sin.  Satan's method of erasing sin is by refuting God's law and making it non-existent.

  
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Re: The Love of God
Reply #5 - Oct 26th, 2008 at 5:40pm
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joe_christian wrote on Oct 26th, 2008 at 5:24pm:
If you worship the Father you don't abolish His law.

The OP points out the difference between the ceremonial law and the civil law. As Christians we are not bound to abide by the old ceremonial laws of worship.  That does not give us the right to invalidate or abolish God's civil law since the ministers of it are appointed by God for our own benefit.

As a lawyer, Paul establishes the law throughout his writings but I don't think he made any new laws for Jews and Christians to abide by.  Cool

The word 'religion' means to bind together, and the law is a system under which we are bound. Take your choice - God's law or Satan's.

Without God's law there can be no sin.  Satan's method of erasing sin is by refuting God's law and making it non-existent.


wow!  who knew following Jesus was so complicated!?
  
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Re: The Love of God
Reply #6 - Oct 26th, 2008 at 7:02pm
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joe_christian wrote on Oct 26th, 2008 at 5:24pm:
The OP points out the difference between the ceremonial law and the civil law. As Christians we are not bound to abide by the old ceremonial laws of worship.  That does not give us the right to invalidate or abolish God's civil law since the ministers of it are appointed by God for our own benefit.


There is no delineation between "ceremonial law" and "civil law."  Neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament records such a delineation.  Any attempt to demarcate such a line is purely arbitrary in every case.

The Bible is quite clear that to keep the covenant of Moses you have to keep all the law.  Those were the terms of the covenant.

Who are you to say that "wearing clothes made from one kind of material" is not "civil" but "ceremonial"?  God simply says they are his "decrees."  They are not related to worship or sacrifice but to everyday living.

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As a lawyer, Paul establishes the law throughout his writings but I don't think he made any new laws for Jews and Christians to abide by.  Cool

The word 'religion' means to bind together, and the law is a system under which we are bound. Take your choice - God's law or Satan's.

Without God's law there can be no sin.  Satan's method of erasing sin is by refuting God's law and making it non-existent.



Nice fallacy of the false dilemma.  If we do it your way we're following God's law?  If we don't do it your way we're following Satan's law?  Nice try.

Paul "establishes the law through his writings"?  You really need to read Galatians some time...
  

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Re: The Love of God
Reply #7 - Oct 26th, 2008 at 7:18pm
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wow!  who knew following Jesus was so complicated!?

Jesus argued the law with the best Jewish lawyers on earth but never with the law itself.

He could only refute and condemn the scribes, lawyers and Pharisees on the basis of law.

Abolish God's law and you reduce Jesus to some wandering Jewish sage of no greater significance than Bhudda or Confucius.

  
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Re: The Love of God
Reply #8 - Oct 26th, 2008 at 7:31pm
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There is no delineation between "ceremonial law" and "civil law."  Neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament records such a delineation.  Any attempt to demarcate such a line is purely arbitrary in every case.

The Bible is quite clear that to keep the covenant of Moses you have to keep all the law.  Those were the terms of the covenant.

Who are you to say that "wearing clothes made from one kind of material" is not "civil" but "ceremonial"?  God simply says they are his "decrees."  They are not related to worship or sacrifice but to everyday living.


Nice fallacy of the false dilemma.  If we do it your way we're following God's law?  If we don't do it your way we're following Satan's law?  Nice try.

Paul "establishes the law through his writings"?  You really need to read Galatians some time...

Paul differentiates between Christians who are led by the Spirit and those who are not.

Christians who sin are still under the law. Otherwise there could be no condemnation of their sin and Christ died in vain.

http://net.bible.org/passage.php?passage=Gal.%205:18-23

  
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Re: The Love of God
Reply #9 - Oct 26th, 2008 at 8:24pm
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joe_christian wrote on Oct 26th, 2008 at 7:31pm:
Paul differentiates between Christians who are led by the Spirit and those who are not.

Christians who sin are still under the law. Otherwise there could be no condemnation of their sin and Christ died in vain.

http://net.bible.org/passage.php?passage=Gal.%205:18-23



Christians who are led by the Spirit are not under the law.  You would rather have Christians under the law than being led by the Spirit?
  

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