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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereChristian Forum › The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenant
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenant (Read 11,396 times)
Mercy For All
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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #10 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 11:45am
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joe_christian wrote on Oct 27th, 2008 at 8:18am:
Read the Ten Commandments.  Which of them are we free to ignore or violate?

Does Psalm 119 not belong in the Christian Bible? Is it only of historical interest and relevent to Jews alone?


Are you or are you not living under the Mosaic covenant?  Sheesh!  It's a simple question!

I've already answered about the relevance of the Old Testament.  If you have ignored my answer that's your problem.

Is the question so hard that you have to keep changing the subject?  It's just a "yes" or "no."  Oh, okay, it's not that simple, because if it's "no" then you are not required to obey the laws that specify the terms of said covenant.  If it's "yes" then you have to obey all the law (and you have to throw out any shirts made of mixed fabrics, get circumcised (if you are not already so), stop eating pork, shellfish, etc., etc., etc., perform your weekly and annual sacrifices...).
  

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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #11 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 8:26pm
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Are you or are you not living under the Mosaic covenant?  Sheesh!  It's a simple question!

I've already answered about the relevance of the Old Testament.  If you have ignored my answer that's your problem.

Is the question so hard that you have to keep changing the subject?  It's just a "yes" or "no."  Oh, okay, it's not that simple, because if it's "no" then you are not required to obey the laws that specify the terms of said covenant.  If it's "yes" then you have to obey all the law (and you have to throw out any shirts made of mixed fabrics, get circumcised (if you are not already so), stop eating pork, shellfish, etc., etc., etc., perform your weekly and annual sacrifices...).

I know nothing about and am not interested in "the Mosaic covenant."

All I know is that God's law rules the nations throughout history and that we are blessed and cursed according to our submission and obedience to His Commandments and rule of law.

I agree that we are not under ceremonial law regarding our salvation but that does not void the Ten Commandments and all the other moral and civil laws which God gave to Moses.

http://www.americanvision.org/blog/?p=87

http://www.restore-christian-america.org/law.html


  
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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #12 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 9:09pm
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joe_christian wrote on Oct 27th, 2008 at 8:26pm:
I know nothing about and am not interested in "the Mosaic covenant."


Then you should pick up your Bible and read it again.  The laws described in the Pentateuch (specifically Exodus to Deuteronomy) delineate the covenant between God and Israel (not all people, but Israel) as given through Moses.

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All I know is that God's law rules the nations throughout history and that we are blessed and cursed according to our submission and obedience to His Commandments and rule of law.


Show how Edom, Egypt, Persia, and Babylon were required by God in the Bible to abide by the specific laws that were the terms of the Mosaic covenant.

Quote:
I agree that we are not under ceremonial law regarding our salvation but that does not void the Ten Commandments and all the other moral and civil laws which God gave to Moses.

http://www.americanvision.org/blog/?p=87

http://www.restore-christian-america.org/law.html


There is no "civil law" vs. "ceremonial law" in the Bible.  You don't see that distinction made in either the Old or New Testaments.  Keeping the covenant meant keeping all the law--not picking and choosing which ones to obey.  Any delineation into "civil" and "ceremonial" is purely anachronistic and arbitrary.

As for "moral law," that's a whole other story.  Romans 1 describes that pretty well.
  

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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #13 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 8:59am
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Then you should pick up your Bible and read it again.  The laws described in the Pentateuch (specifically Exodus to Deuteronomy) delineate the covenant between God and Israel (not all people, but Israel) as given through Moses.

The church, as Israel of God, is grafted into Israel, and are the people of God.

Jews don't stop being Jews when they accept the Messiah.

Quote:
Show how Edom, Egypt, Persia, and Babylon were required by God in the Bible to abide by the specific laws that were the terms of the Mosaic covenant.

God judges all nations according to His rule of law whether they abide by His laws or not.

All men are sinners and are judged by God.

Quote:
There is no "civil law" vs. "ceremonial law" in the Bible.  You don't see that distinction made in either the Old or New Testaments.  Keeping the covenant meant keeping all the law--not picking and choosing which ones to obey.  Any delineation into "civil" and "ceremonial" is purely anachronistic and arbitrary.

I have no more problem distinguishing between civil and ceremonial law than the founders of America's civil government did.

http://www.restore-christian-america.org/law.html

Quote:
As for "moral law," that's a whole other story.  Romans 1 describes that pretty well.

The moral laws of Jesus are based on the civil and economic laws which God gave to Moses.  

http://www.landreform.org/be1.htm

http://www.entrewave.com/freebooks/docs/_newsbet.htm

  
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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #14 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 9:30am
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joe_christian wrote on Oct 28th, 2008 at 8:59am:
The church, as Israel of God, is grafted into Israel, and are the people of God.

Jews don't stop being Jews when they accept the Messiah.


So there is no new covenant under Jesus Christ?  We are bound by the Mosaic covenant?  Now you'd better make sure that you're circumcised and that you don't eat pork and that you don't wear shirts of mixed fabrics.  Otherwise you are blatantly and rebelliously breaking God's law.  What should we do about that?

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God judges all nations according to His rule of law whether they abide by His laws or not.

All men are sinners and are judged by God.


Sure.  But not all nations are under the Mosaic covenant.  Other nations in the Old Testament were not required to sacrifice in Jerusalem, to circumcise, etc., etc., etc.

Quote:
I have no more problem distinguishing between civil and ceremonial law than the founders of America's civil government did.

http://www.restore-christian-america.org/law.html


Really?  You are so arrogant as to redefine laws in the Bible into categories that were not originally intended?

Quote:
The moral laws of Jesus are based on the civil and economic laws which God gave to Moses.  

http://www.landreform.org/be1.htm

http://www.entrewave.com/freebooks/docs/_newsbet.htm



Are they?
  

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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #15 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 9:50am
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So there is no new covenant under Jesus Christ?  We are bound by the Mosaic covenant? Now you'd better make sure that you're circumcised and that you don't eat pork and that you don't wear shirts of mixed fabrics.  Otherwise you are blatantly and rebelliously breaking God's law. What should we do about that?

You could judge me if you had some moral law system by which to judge others.

Quote:
Sure.  But not all nations are under the Mosaic covenant.  Other nations in the Old Testament were not required to sacrifice in Jerusalem, to circumcise, etc., etc., etc.

We know that.

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Really?  You are so arrogant as to redefine laws in the Bible into categories that were not originally intended?

True arrogance is claiming that one is above the law.

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Are they?

Are they not?

  
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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #16 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 2:54pm
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joe_christian wrote on Oct 27th, 2008 at 8:26pm:
I know nothing about and am not interested in "the Mosaic covenant."

All I know is that God's law rules the nations throughout history and that we are blessed and cursed according to our submission and obedience to His Commandments and rule of law.

I agree that we are not under ceremonial law regarding our salvation but that does not void the Ten Commandments and all the other moral and civil laws which God gave to Moses.

http://www.americanvision.org/blog/?p=87

http://www.restore-christian-america.org/law.html





Do you keep the seventh day Sabbath? That's part of the 10 commandments.
Or do you keep Sunday instead and only keep the other 9 commandments?
  

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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #17 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 3:38pm
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joe_christian wrote on Oct 28th, 2008 at 9:50am:
You could judge me if you had some moral law system by which to judge others.


I don't need to judge you.  I can judge your ideas as unbiblical though.

Quote:
We know that.


So God has expectations for all nations, but not the same expectations that he had for Israel under the Mosaic covenant because those nations were not under the Mosaic covenant.

Quote:
True arrogance is claiming that one is above the law.


I'm not "above the law," I am in Christ.

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Are they not?


Not at all.  To say that moral law is based on the laws given to Moses is to say that moral law did not exist until Moses gave the law to Israel.
  

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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #18 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 8:53pm
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Do you keep the seventh day Sabbath? That's part of the 10 commandments.
Or do you keep Sunday instead and only keep the other 9 commandments?


Of course. I'm a six-day creationist.

The Sabbath, a blessed day of rest, can be any one of seven days.  The important thing is to rest after six days labor as God rested after making heaven and earth in six days.

Quote:
Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.

For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.


  
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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #19 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 9:12pm
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I don't need to judge you.  I can judge your ideas as unbiblical though.

That would be poor judgment on your part.

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So God has expectations for all nations, but not the same expectations that he had for Israel under the Mosaic covenant because those nations were not under the Mosaic covenant.

So?

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I'm not "above the law," I am in Christ.

Christ subjected Himself to God's law and judgment. Israel was judged by God's law.

Have you neither respect nor love for our Father's system of law, order and justice after all the grace and mercy He has shown us through His Son's lawful sacrifice and atonement for our sins?

Showing mercy and the extention of grace are aspects and functions of law, you know.

Quote:
Not at all.  To say that moral law is based on the laws given to Moses is to say that moral law did not exist until Moses gave the law to Israel.

That's right. What moral law system do you know of that existed prior to God's moral law - Darwin's law of the jungle?

  
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