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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereChristian Forum › The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenant
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenant (Read 11,829 times)
joe_christian
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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #60 - Nov 1st, 2008 at 9:52pm
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Wrong.  To say so you run into so many problems, namely:

1)  That everyone in the world is under the same covenant; which is clearly not the case if you read the Old Testament

Everyone in the world is under God's judgment whether they read the OT or not.

2)  That all the law applies, including laws that people who say this kind of thing obviously don't keep, like dietary laws, etc. [/quote]
Dietary laws are for one's health.  If you don't want to keep them there is no penalty other than the results of poor diet.

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3)  You have to specifically ignore quite clear parts of the Bible, like Galatians.

Nothing Paul wrote abolished God's law.  In Romans 3:31 he specifically establishes the law.

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How about dietary laws and laws about clothing?

No penalties are imposed for not keeping them.

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It's not a "modern day heresy."  It's in the Bible.  You really should pick it up and read it instead of Rushdoony.  It's a plain as day.  Acts 15,  Galatians, Romans.  Those are all in the Bible.

So are all of God's laws in the Bible. They are as plain as day for those not blinded by sin.

Quote:
Sure.  That would be an acceptable "compromise" for me.  Except it's not a compromise.  It's a higher standard and one espoused by Christ and Paul.

I like higher standards as long as they don't replace the previous standards by which we keep the "higher" standards in perspective.  Cool

Quote:
Relevance?  Laws have no benefit towards holiness.  That's in the Bible.

Laws are the standards by which we may measure the degree of our santification.

We know how great someone's sins are by the severity of the laws they keep breaking. 

  
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Mercy For All
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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #61 - Nov 1st, 2008 at 11:12pm
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joe_christian wrote on Nov 1st, 2008 at 9:52pm:
Everyone in the world is under God's judgment whether they read the OT or not.


Never said it wasn't.  God's judgment and Mosaic law are two different things.  Do you really think, as per Romans 1, that our conscience tells us not to eat pork?

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Dietary laws are for one's health.  If you don't want to keep them there is no penalty other than the results of poor diet.


That's a load of horsecrap.  Dietary laws were part of the covenant and were not optional for the Hebrews.

Shellfish is not unhealthy but it was against the law for a Jew under the Mosaic covenant.

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I like higher standards as long as they don't replace the previous standards by which we keep the "higher" standards in perspective.  Cool


We keep higher standards in perspective by resorting to lower standards?   Huh  You're twisting meanings again.

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Laws are the standards by which we may measure the degree of our santification.


No.  We measure our sanctification by Christ.
  

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joe_christian
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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #62 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 9:24am
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Never said it wasn't.  God's judgment and Mosaic law are two different things.  Do you really think, as per Romans 1, that our conscience tells us not to eat pork?


That's a load of horsecrap.  Dietary laws were part of the covenant and were not optional for the Hebrews.

Shellfish is not unhealthy but it was against the law for a Jew under the Mosaic covenant.

What were the penalties for not keeping the dietary laws?

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We keep higher standards in perspective by resorting to lower standards?   Huh  You're twisting meanings again.

One has to know what the original standards are in order to determine whether your new standards are actually higher.

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No.  We measure our sanctification by Christ.

Only because Christ is both judge and the law now that all power and authority has been given Him.

Satan is the lawless one, not Christ.

  
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Mercy For All
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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #63 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 2:20pm
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joe_christian wrote on Nov 2nd, 2008 at 9:24am:
What were the penalties for not keeping the dietary laws?


Let me turn that question back; what is the penalty for breaking the law?

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One has to know what the original standards are in order to determine whether your new standards are actually higher.


The original standards we know.  We haven't "thrown them out" in spite of your accusations.  They still are recorded in the Old Testament.  So...what are you trying to say?
  

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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #64 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 3:50pm
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Let me turn that question back; what is the penalty for breaking the law?

Penalties are given on a case by case basis and are stipulated by God, not man.

Now, what is the penalty for not following dietary law?

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The original standards we know.  We haven't "thrown them out" in spite of your accusations.  They still are recorded in the Old Testament.  So...what are you trying to say?


God's laws are as valid for man today as Christ's atonement for our breaking them is.

Christ couldn't die for my sins in the 21st Century if God's laws no longer apply since sin is the transgression of the law and without the law there is nothing to transgress and no sin for Christ to die for.

If people are not convicted of their sin and their need for atonement before an holy God, why on earth would they be in need of a savior who would die in their place for their sins?

No law = no sin and no need for any salvation.

  
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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #65 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 4:35pm
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joe_christian, how about this question:

How about simple "yes" or "no"?  Do you believe that all the commands in the Bible are for all people and for all time?

Did you forget about that?
  

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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #66 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 4:52pm
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joe_christian wrote on Nov 2nd, 2008 at 3:50pm:
Penalties are given on a case by case basis and are stipulated by God, not man.

Now, what is the penalty for not following dietary law?


Breaking the law is breaking the covenant.

Quote:
God's laws are as valid for man today as Christ's atonement for our breaking them is.


All of them?  Dietary laws?  Or are you "allowed" to break dietary laws because there's no apparent penalty?

Quote:
Christ couldn't die for my sins in the 21st Century if God's laws no longer apply since sin is the transgression of the law and without the law there is nothing to transgress and no sin for Christ to die for.


He didn't die in the 21st century.

Quote:
If people are not convicted of their sin and their need for atonement before an holy God, why on earth would they be in need of a savior who would die in their place for their sins?


Who convicts of sin?
  

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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #67 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 5:31pm
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joe_christian, how about this question:

How about simple "yes" or "no"?  Do you believe that all the commands in the Bible are for all people and for all time?

Did you forget about that?

All of the Bible is for all of the people for all of the time.

Why don't you tell us which of God's commandments we may wilfully violate and still enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

Can we kill, rob, riot, steal and plunder at will?

How about adultery - is that lawful now?

Can we worship many gods and dishonor our parents?

May I covet my neighbor's good-looking wife and have an affair if she seduces me?

Maybe I can have two or three wives like the Mormons and Muslims.

How about incest, sodomy and homosexuality?  Does anything go now that God's laws mean nothing?

I sure would like to know which laws still apply for Christians to follow in case some of them don't know what they are doing and continue living a life of sin.  

  
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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #68 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 6:21pm
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joe_christian wrote on Nov 2nd, 2008 at 5:31pm:
All of the Bible is for all of the people for all of the time.

Why don't you tell us which of God's commandments we may wilfully violate and still enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

Can we kill, rob, riot, steal and plunder at will?

How about adultery - is that lawful now?

Can we worship many gods and dishonor our parents?

May I covet my neighbor's good-looking wife and have an affair if she seduces me?

Maybe I can have two or three wives like the Mormons and Muslims.

How about incest, sodomy and homosexuality?  Does anything go now that God's laws mean nothing?

I sure would like to know which laws still apply for Christians to follow in case some of them don't know what they are doing and continue living a life of sin.  



If every command in the Bible is for everyone for all time, then it is a command for you to:

1) Bring Paul's cloak from Troas to him, the one he left with Carpus, as well as his scrolls, especially the parchments.
2) Wait in Jerusalem until you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit from heaven.

If every command in the Bible is for everyone for all time, and you disobey these two, you are breaking God's law.

If, however, these commands do not apply to you, then not every command in the Bible is for all people for all time.

So, which is it?

  

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Re: The Ceremonial Law/The Ten Commandment Covenan
Reply #69 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 6:34pm
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If every command in the Bible is for everyone for all time, then it is a command for you to:

1) Bring Paul's cloak from Troas to him, the one he left with Carpus, as well as his scrolls, especially the parchments.
2) Wait in Jerusalem until you receive the gift of the Holy Spirit from heaven.

If every command in the Bible is for everyone for all time, and you disobey these two, you are breaking God's law.

If, however, these commands do not apply to you, then not every command in the Bible is for all people for all time.

So, which is it? 

It's God's commandments we have to obey, not Paul's, silly.

  
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