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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Contemporary Picture of Forgiveness (Read 9,807 times)
joe_christian
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Re: A Contemporary Picture of Forgiveness
Reply #40 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 3:13pm
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Mathew 5 :

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

You're giving us too much personal opinion and worldly philosophy. I rather listen to what Christ himself
instructs.


You only "love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you," when you teach and apply God's laws to them.

Christ does not call us to be martyrs or masochists but to teach all the nations what God has commanded us.

  
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joe_christian
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Re: A Contemporary Picture of Forgiveness
Reply #41 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 3:17pm
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Mercy is always abstract until you experience it. Have you not experienced mercy?

I seem to be getting a dose of mercy for all on this thread.  Wink


  
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joe_christian
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Re: A Contemporary Picture of Forgiveness
Reply #42 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 3:21pm
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The Bible says that the world is condemned already. We don't need to do it again.

Rapists and murderers need to be condemned to death. Otherwse we have to pay for their life of idleness in prison.

  
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joe_christian
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Re: A Contemporary Picture of Forgiveness
Reply #43 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 3:25pm
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Again, you try to change/twist the subject when you're caught.

Caught? Are you on a fishing expedition?

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How much mercy are you willing to show to the attackers of the two missionaries?

None if they show no remorse and refuse to repent and pay damages.

Some, if they do. Smiley

  
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Re: A Contemporary Picture of Forgiveness
Reply #44 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 7:17pm
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joe_christian wrote on Nov 2nd, 2008 at 3:13pm:
You only "love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you," when you teach and apply God's laws to them.

Christ does not call us to be martyrs or masochists but to teach all the nations what God has commanded us.



Okay, I guess you need to write a letter to J.C. asking him to update his words to fit your criteria.
Apply God's law and we're all condemned. We apply civic laws to civic lawbreakers, but that's apart
from Christian forgiveness. But we've already talked about this.
.....good luck 

By the way God does call some folks to be matyrs. Hopefully not me.  Smiley
  

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joe_christian
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Re: A Contemporary Picture of Forgiveness
Reply #45 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 7:47pm
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Okay, I guess you need to write a letter to J.C. asking him to update his words to fit your criteria.
Apply God's law and we're all condemned. We apply civic laws to civic lawbreakers, but that's apart
from Christian forgiveness. But we've already talked about this.
.....good luck

Thanks for the great conversation.

Quote:
By the way God does call some folks to be matyrs. Hopefully not me. Smiley

I think one sacrificial lamb of God is sufficient for the salvation of those who love God and keep His commandments.

  
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Re: A Contemporary Picture of Forgiveness
Reply #46 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 8:09pm
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joe_christian, you have a bizarre view of Christian mercy and forgiveness.  You somehow think that we should somehow be more judgmental and merciful than God himself, even though he has forgiven us for so much.

You know, Jesus told a story about that:

"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.

"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'

"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.

"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

Matthew 18:23-35
  

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joe_christian
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Re: A Contemporary Picture of Forgiveness
Reply #47 - Nov 2nd, 2008 at 8:40pm
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joe_christian, you have a bizarre view of Christian mercy and forgiveness. You somehow think that we should somehow be more judgmental and merciful than God himself, even though he has forgiven us for so much.

You know, Jesus told a story about that:

"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.

"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'

"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.

"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

Matthew 18:23-35

Yea, it's a great story with a great moral lesson to be learned. I was especially amused by the part where the master turned the wicked servant over to the jailers to be tortured until he pay back all he owed. Grin

Hope I didn't miss the moral of the story there. Wink

  
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Re: A Contemporary Picture of Forgiveness
Reply #48 - Jan 23rd, 2009 at 1:31am
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This is an interesting discussion as well; I think I'm going to like it here.

Ok to sort this out:

God grants mercy as he deems. He is the God of Mercy, we can only grant mercy over what we have authority to do. In this case (assault and rape of the missionaries) the victims can only grant forgiveness on their own and request mercy of the judge in the case, it is up to the Judge to deliver mercy if he so chooses. If there is no judge, no justice available, then the crime goes unanswered and there is not earthly justice, mercy though in the form of forgiveness can happen at any time based on the hearts of the victims. That never exonerates the perpetrators of the crime of assault and rape they are still guilty and are under both earthly and heavenly consequences- if the family were to send out a man to demand justice that would be their option under the law of God they have the right to execute mercy and fulfill the obligation of the crime and get justice as well. The act of executing them is merciful and a fulfilled consequence of the law. What the victims cannot do is enact some sort of punishment that allows them to get even, or up the score for retribution, or vengeance.

I think we have to keep in mind here that because of a lack of following Gods law universally throughout the whole world we have allowed the consequences of sin to permeate all of our societies to being totally corrupt so its because of sin that the righteous suffer. I admire the missionaries for their stalwart attitude to continue the Lords work and in forgiving the perps, but in my opinion the perps still need to be brought to justice.

Now had I been there, Id have killed those five men myself, then forgave them for trying to assault and rape my wife, executing both mercy and justice with a clear conscience. I say that because the keeping of the law benefits all of society, true mercy is by sole discretion of the giver, it should be a rare thing to give out. The Lord Jesus allowed Mercy when the adulteress was brought before him. He did not say that he forgave her of her sin, he said that he chose not to condemn her, he granted a stay of execution showing mercy by withholding what she deserved. (John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.) At other times he fully forgave people, but he had the power and authority to do so. We dont have that power until we are directly offended. On a side note I do believe that God grants an extra measure of grace to those who have been offended to allow thoughts of mercy to enter their hearts, otherwise I cant explain how they can forgive them so easily.

And thank you all for a thought provoking conversation.
  

Mean and Ornery as a BULL!&&&&
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Re: A Contemporary Picture of Forgiveness
Reply #49 - Feb 6th, 2009 at 4:34am
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make them pay for their crimes. and ask God to forgive them
  
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