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Electrical problem (Read 5,749 times)
Duanes Wearing Velvet Pants
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Electrical problem
Jun 30th, 2010 at 6:29pm
 
I'm trying t swap out my foyer light for a new one. The old one is about 50 years old.  It looked easy. Two wires white and black and a ground. However when I turned on the main switch the light came on even though the light switch was off. So I turned on the light switch and it tripped the circuit. After i fixed that I made sure the wires were attached correctly and tried it again. The light came on even though the switch was off. I turned on the switch and the light remained on. What am I doing wrong?
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Solar Rightwing Extremist
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Re: Electrical problem
Reply #1 - Jun 30th, 2010 at 7:36pm
 
Not certain, but you either have a short or a double switch.

Can you turn on the light from two different locations?

If you have a volt meter, check to see that only one leg or wire has voltage, if you are reading voltage on the ground then you definitely have a short.
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Re: Electrical problem
Reply #2 - Jun 30th, 2010 at 10:29pm
 
While reading over this once more I wondered if you replaced it with a fluorescent light?
I ask because if the polarity is reversed, it will continue to draw power.
Try reversing the wires, but with the switch off.


If you buy a cheap volt meter at the hardware store for around ten bucks, select ac volts- and connect it to the wires, if you hook the red to the black and the negative to the white, it should say approx 112volts+, and do the same with the ground as if it were the white wire, you should still read the same voltage, but if you connect the green and white to the probes by them self and get voltage, you have a ground issue, or a short.

EDIT: If you get a reading of 112 volts -, and you have the red probe to the black wire, you have a polarity issue.
I then suggest you call an electrician just to be safe.

In the old days light bulbs didn't care about polarity, they would light regardless.
As in the diagram below.

...

But in the next image note that in wiring, "Black is hot, White is not".

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« Last Edit: Jun 30th, 2010 at 11:02pm by N/A »  
 
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Moishe3rd
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Re: Electrical problem
Reply #3 - Jul 2nd, 2010 at 2:03pm
 
See Solar's first diagram.
More than likely, you have the hot wire and the neutral wire running directly from the panel to the light. 
Or, in other words, the hot is probably not running to the switch but to the light.
Cheap little volt sensor will tell you which wire is hot.
Then, hook it up appropriately.

And, let us know what happened.
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"There is no way this winter is ever going to end as long as that groundhog keeps seeing his shadow.  I don't see any way out of it.  He's got to be stopped.  And I have to stop him."http://lifeisbeautifulallthetime.blogspot.com/
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Re: Electrical problem
Reply #4 - Jul 8th, 2010 at 12:32am
 
Quote:
While reading over this once more I wondered if you replaced it with a fluorescent light?
I ask because if the polarity is reversed, it will continue to draw power.
Try reversing the wires, but with the switch off.


If you buy a cheap volt meter at the hardware store for around ten bucks, select ac volts- and connect it to the wires, if you hook the red to the black and the negative to the white, it should say approx 112volts+, and do the same with the ground as if it were the white wire, you should still read the same voltage, but if you connect the green and white to the probes by them self and get voltage, you have a ground issue, or a short.

EDIT: If you get a reading of 112 volts -, and you have the red probe to the black wire, you have a polarity issue.
I then suggest you call an electrician just to be safe.

In the old days light bulbs didn't care about polarity, they would light regardless.
As in the diagram below.

[img]

But in the next image note that in wiring, "Black is hot, White is not".

[img]

Okay, I have bought a voltage tester. it has black (ac) and red (dc) cords. What gets connected to what?
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Re: Electrical problem
Reply #5 - Jul 8th, 2010 at 11:11am
 
First, get your wife's rubber dish washing gloves, and don't use a metal ladder, please.
120 volts won't necessarily kill you, but it will give you one Hell of a rush. Cheesy
I love it myself.... Cheesy

Edit: I just reread what you wrote.
Quote:
Okay, I have bought a voltage tester. it has black (ac) and red (dc) cords. What gets connected to what?

On your meter, if the wires are removable, plug them into Red + Hot, to the hole that says volts probably 600 volts + and may have a triangle with a lightning bolt in it.
The Black is a Ground wire, and it will say Com. or Common and have a black, or possibly green hole to plug into on the meter, plug it in that hole, do not plug it in the hole that has only a number with an A mil/A behind it, that is for amperage.

Check the wires at your light first, turn the volt meter to AC setting. The red wire on the meter always goes to the hot wire, which is usually black, unless someone made a mistake, which may have happened in this case.

I think you said you had three wires, black, white, green, the green and white share a common connection, so both are considered ground if you look in the breaker box.
The Green/ground wire goes outside to the Earth, the white connects to the breaker box, which is connected to the ground wire.
So as you can see, only the black should have power.

Check for power, connect red+ to black wire, the black wire on your meter, I assume is black, connect it to the white house wire, it should read between 112 and 121 volts AC.
If not, turn light switch on, if you now get a reading, then there is nothing wrong.

Now if that is a failure, take the leads on your meter and check for voltage across the green and white, you should
not
get any reading whatsoever, if you do, stop and call an electrician, he will have the tools to find the short.

If none of the above applies, next go to the switch and remove the cover, use the leads like I described above, red to black etc, then trip the switch and check again, if no power is available, at all, remove switch and check again, you may have a bad switch , but they usually never fail in the on position.

One question, did the old light work fine at the switch before?
Or did you never use it?
Moishe may have a good idea, in that the previous owners used the breaker to turn it off and on.


OK, I'll stop here, let us know the results of the above listed steps, if I wasn't clear enough, again, let me know, I've been doing wiring for nearly fifty years, so I tend to assume people know certain jargon.
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« Last Edit: Jul 8th, 2010 at 11:29am by N/A »  
 
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Re: Electrical problem
Reply #6 - Jul 8th, 2010 at 11:51am
 
In my first reply I asked if it was possible if you had a double switch, or a three way.
Watch the video, let me know if this is a possibility, if it is, then that is a whole nother can O worms.

http://www.doityourself.com/video/How-to-wire-a-3-way-Light-Switch-80712869
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Re: Electrical problem
Reply #7 - Jul 8th, 2010 at 5:13pm
 
Okay. I used the meter and hooked up the wires appropriately. it works like a charm. But when I push the wires into the box in the ceiling and fasten the fixture to the bracket and turn on the power I keep tripping the circuit. When I unfasten it and let it hang down it works fine.
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Re: Electrical problem
Reply #8 - Jul 8th, 2010 at 7:50pm
 
Quote:
Okay. I used the meter and hooked up the wires appropriately. it works like a charm. But when I push the wires into the box in the ceiling and fasten the fixture to the bracket and turn on the power I keep tripping the circuit. When I unfasten it and let it hang down it works fine.


One word. SHORT!

There is a definite short occurring, if you used just tape to connect the wires, I'd suggest wire nuts, making certain no bare wire is exposed.

Is this the old cloth covered type wire, or is it newer Romex with the white pvc/plastic coating over the group of wires?
Also make sure that the wire isn't cracked along the line, pull out as much as you can and check it.

Last but not least, take the light back and exchange it, there is a possible flaw in it's manufacture, stranger things have happened.

I've had this happen before, the wire is too stiff, and the light is to weak and tends to stress when placed in the fixture.
One way to see where the problem occurs, is to turn the switch on and watch close where you see a spark, that will be your short and most likely the problem, and I'm willing to bet it is a cheap Chinese fixture inside a very pretty light, right?
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Re: Electrical problem
Reply #9 - Jul 27th, 2010 at 2:57pm
 
Well, what was the outcome? Huh
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