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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Beast Revelation (Read 8,949 times)
FrankDialogue
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Re: The Beast Revelation
Reply #20 - Sep 29th, 2011 at 11:45am
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Too much dissecting of the Book of Revelation will drive you crazy...It is stated right in the beginning that the whole content of the 'book' is a vision that John had.

Everyone who reads it has his own interpretation, because God has given us reason and intelligence and the ability to question...Some who criticize those who have alternative interpretations are the same who spend months or years interpreting themselves.

'Revelation' is a vision of spiritual warfare in the heavenly realm...To me, he 'Beast' is simply our earthly system of commerce, power politics and control mechanisms.
  
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ephraim
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Re: The Beast Revelation
Reply #21 - Sep 29th, 2011 at 2:10pm
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FrankDialogue wrote on Sep 29th, 2011 at 11:45am:
Too much dissecting of the Book of Revelation will drive you crazy...It is stated right in the beginning that the whole content of the 'book' is a vision that John had.


Did you read the entire narrative? Sometimes people comment even before reading it all. I'm just curious that's all. It takes about five minutes to read. It took years to figure all this out. The reason for that is the information came in pieces over a long period of time.
Ephraim
  
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FrankDialogue
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Re: The Beast Revelation
Reply #22 - Sep 29th, 2011 at 4:49pm
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ephraim wrote on Sep 29th, 2011 at 2:10pm:

Did you read the entire narrative? Sometimes people comment even before reading it all. I'm just curious that's all. It takes about five minutes to read. It took years to figure all this out. The reason for that is the information came in pieces over a long period of time.
Ephraim


The Book of Revelation?...I've read it all the way through about five times...I just find it impossible to interpret in a literal or historical sense...Many theologians would agree, but I am certainly no theologian...I think the best way to read it is to let it 'reveal itself' to you, as there are so many layers and images there.

I certainly don't agree with any interpretations by 'Rapture-ites' or by Christian Zionists who try to use it as some kind of justification for the political state of Israel, or who long for some kind of apocalypse in the Middle East because it will 'bring Jesus back'.
  
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ephraim
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Re: The Beast Revelation
Reply #23 - Sep 29th, 2011 at 6:28pm
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FrankDialogue wrote on Sep 29th, 2011 at 4:49pm:
The Book of Revelation?...


I'm not talking about the book of Revelation. I meant, have you read the four parts of my interpretation at the beginning of this thread?
Ephraim

  
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FrankDialogue
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Re: The Beast Revelation
Reply #24 - Sep 30th, 2011 at 11:11am
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ephraim wrote on Sep 29th, 2011 at 6:28pm:
I'm not talking about the book of Revelation. I meant, have you read the four parts of my interpretation at the beginning of this thread?
Ephraim



I read a good bit of it but, again, it is trying to be too specific and literal...I believe the various passages of Revelation involve conflict in the spiritual realm, and any attempts to pinpoint this and that come up short.

I appreciate your work, but think you will just give yourself a headache. I don't think that current affairs in the Middle East will lead to an apocalypse, unless perhaps the fanatical Jews somehow make the monumental mistake of disturbing the Al-Aram mosque.


  
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Re: The Beast Revelation
Reply #25 - Sep 30th, 2011 at 2:06pm
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FrankDialogue wrote on Sep 30th, 2011 at 11:11am:


I read a good bit of it but, again, it is trying to be too specific and literal...I believe the various passages of Revelation involve conflict in the spiritual realm, and any attempts to pinpoint this and that come up short.



That is all I wanted to know. Did you read it? The answer is no. Reading a portion of it is not enough. I have no interest in the comments of someone who hasn't read my article. The comments that you are giving are for someone else. I'm not interested in your standard answer. Your disinterest with others, who write articles similar to mine, is not my fault. Thanks for your time.
  
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Re: The Beast Revelation
Reply #26 - Oct 1st, 2011 at 3:33pm
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ephraim wrote on Jul 7th, 2011 at 1:45pm:
The Beast Revelation part two

Now, getting back to the questions. The question is, where is Satan? If this question can be answered, you will have eliminated some others. Some prophecy teachers believe that Satan is the beast, or that Satan is the false prophet, which is misleading and puts a stumbling block square in the road to a proper interpretation. I almost always get this question. How can you know who the beast is when he cannot be revealed? 2nd Thess. Chapter 2 states that he cannot be revealed, until something is removed first. Most scholars have this part right. That is a picture of the Rapture. What they have wrong is that Satan and the beast are not the same individual. Satan cannot be revealed until after the rapture, but he is not the beast. Therefore, I can identify the beast and his false prophet. People say prove it. So I did. I told them how to understand using the keys that I have mentioned. Revelation 13 is a parable, but God is not giving the definition, or the explanation. This one is for us to figure out. Ok, so where is Satan? In the book of Job, we get a view of Satan's abilities. In one scene, he is discussing with God about Job. Question, where is God? He is in heaven. Also, in his conversation with God Satan is talking as if he knows and has seen Job. God declares that he can do whatever he wants to Job, but he was not allowed to kill him. Now we know something else about Satan. He also has access to the Earth, and can affect peoples lives. So, it appears that Satan can be everywhere he wants to be, on Earth or in heaven. We know Satan and his angels will be cast out of heaven as per Revelation 12. This would further the idea that he is now in heaven. We also see Satan one other time, when he tempted Christ during his time on Earth. It says that he was taken to the wilderness to be tempted of Satan? Most people, and rightly so, have thought the wilderness to be a place on Earth, but this is a parable I believe. The Lord was in the wilderness and was tempted by Satan, but the wilderness is in heaven. This parable is read in Isaiah 35. It is the wilderness and the solitary place where the redeemed of the Lord walk. So, this last item being the most hard to prove, suffice it to say, that when Rev.12 says Satan will be cast out, he must be there in heaven to be cast out. Alright, now we can answer a couple questions. One, Satan is himself, and he is in heaven. Therefore, he is not the beast or the false prophet. These three work together, but each has his own identity.


this is a mess of bad logic and faulty reading of Scripture.  you seem to have pinpointed "location" in a very strange way.

are you assuming that one can only speak to God if they are in heaven?  also, are you assuming that Jesus, while He was alive on earth, was transported into heaven to be tempted?

there are so many problems with this starting point, that i don't think the rest is worth the time to read.  sorry.
  
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ephraim
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Re: The Beast Revelation
Reply #27 - Oct 1st, 2011 at 4:10pm
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Quote:
this is a mess of bad logic and faulty reading of Scripture. you seem to have pinpointed "location" in a very strange way.

are you assuming that one can only speak to God if they are in heaven? also, are you assuming that Jesus, while He was alive on earth, was transported into heaven to be tempted?

there are so many problems with this starting point, that i don't think the rest is worth the time to read. sorry.


Do you have trouble with reading comprehension? I never said you could not speak with God, and not be in his presence. Satan was in his presence. This is portrayed in the following verses.
_______________
Job Chapter 1

6: Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
7: And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
8: And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

______________

Also, I was showing how parables are figured out when I described where Jesus was tempted. I said I could not prove Jesus was in Heaven when he was tempted, but I suspect it to be true. It really doesn't matter anyway. The point I was making was Satan has access to the Earth and Heaven. This is verified by the verses I have posted from Job in the KJV. Ephraim
  
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Re: The Beast Revelation
Reply #28 - Oct 1st, 2011 at 10:39pm
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Satan entered Judas. In heaven?
  

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Re: The Beast Revelation
Reply #29 - Oct 2nd, 2011 at 11:23am
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Mercy For All wrote on Oct 1st, 2011 at 10:39pm:
Satan entered Judas. In heaven?


I never mention Judas in my writings.
I cannot distinguish whether that is a figure of speech, or reality. If it is reality and Satan really entered into him, it makes no difference. Satan had the ability to access the Earth and the people on it. The parable about Jesus being tempted has no relation to Judas. Christ would have been the only one who could have gone to Heaven and came back, because he was God. This issue is of little importance to my writing. The only point I wanted to make is Satan could be anywhere he wanted to be. This is important because many think he cannot be in Heaven, but he must be in order to be cast out. There are some who think he has already been cast out. This is wrong also. Satan cannot be cast out and revealed, until something is removed first. That something is the Holy Spirit which resides in every believer. In other words, Satan cannot be revealed to the people of Earth until after the removal of the Church...Michae1
  
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