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patrick2

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Re: Obamanomics: lowest housing prices in a decade
Reply #50 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 12:46pm

forgotten centrist wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:02am:

Trickle-down was a major talking point of the Reagan administration, later repackaged as "supply side economics". Mind you, Bush 41 disagreed with it during the 1980 primary, coining the term "voodoo economics" in his campaign against Reagan. (But he quickly pivoted to secure the veep spot.)

And there's this about Reagan's budget director -- the main man behind supply side:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1981/12/the-education-of-david-stock...

Stockman was of course a renegade from the Reagan administration - the phrase remains not any kind of economic argument but an idiot phrase used as agitprop for the unschooled an uniformed. The effects of Reagan's administration are clear: a 17 year boom in the stock market, and a long period of immense growth and high employment. All this, after taking over from Carter who created a debacle of huge interest rates, huge inflation, and unemployment - all at the same time. Reagan's success came even within the context of having to raise taxes for the huge democrat new deal era and johnson era social programs of social security and medicare, now widely recognized as little more than ponzi schemes.

By contrast with "trickle down", the leftwingers' keynesian theory of massive government spending have now had two spectacular failures, once during the Great Depression, and now during the Great Recession - both of which events were brought on themselves by democrat policies

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Rabbit_Reborn

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Re: Obamanomics: lowest housing prices in a decade
Reply #51 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 1:52pm

Partisan games from both sides. This thread is terrible.

These issues are massive. Republicans talked for years about encouraging home ownership. Democrats were defending the solvency of Freddy and Fannie, and in fact pushing for more home loans. The DC elite are and have been steering this economy into catastrophe for decades.

But the GOP says "it's all Obama!" while the Democrats say "it's all Bush!"

There are so many culprits, stretching back to Wilson, FDR, Hoover, and countless Congressmen and Senators.

But everybody wants to be on the cooler team, and cast blame on the current buffoons running the show, despite the fact that both groups end up using the same tools over and over again: Lower interest rates, spend stimulus money, go deeper into debt...

There is virtually no difference here.

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"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain — that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."

—Lysander Spooner, The Constitution of No Authority, 1870

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Self-radicalizing Harry

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Re: Obamanomics: lowest housing prices in a decade
Reply #52 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 2:05pm

Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 1:52pm:

Partisan games from both sides. This thread is terrible.

These issues are massive. Republicans talked for years about encouraging home ownership. Democrats were defending the solvency of Freddy and Fannie, and in fact pushing for more home loans. The DC elite are and have been steering this economy into catastrophe for decades.

But the GOP says "it's all Obama!" while the Democrats say "it's all Bush!"

There are so many culprits, stretching back to Wilson, FDR, Hoover, and countless Congressmen and Senators.

But everybody wants to be on the cooler team, and cast blame on the current buffoons running the show, despite the fact that both groups end up using the same tools over and over again: Lower interest rates, spend stimulus money, go deeper into debt...

There is virtually no difference here.

The problem, ironically, is the need to be reelected. Once promised, and implemented, these "benefits" are impossible to get rid of, and when put across seductively, and with no real opposition, sound really good to Johnny Q. Public.

I've said for years that the solution is to go back to a part time legislature such as the one we lived under for decades before getting "stuff" done became so important, and being in the legislature became so profitable.

Term limits, and specified periods in the capitol, except in the event of a real emergency should be how the government is run. These people should have real jobs in their community, and live with the laws they make.

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Re: Obamanomics: lowest housing prices in a decade
Reply #53 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 2:18pm

Sarge19d wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 10:13am:

That he's had 3 1/2 years to fix, but he's more concerned with bauiling out the UAW, ramming ObamaCare down our throats, sending his Attorney General to every part of the country trying to rile up latent racial unrest, and vacationing in Hawaii and other tourist hotspots. How many rounds of golf has he played in the last 3 1/2 years?

Only Republican cons would expect a Democratic president to fix their recession in less than four years. I don't remember a single economist predicting a recovery to where we were before the recession so soon. And if there were a Republican in office, you wouldn't be expecting it either. I'm glad you have much higher expectations of Democrats than you do of those failures, the Republicans.

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Self-radicalizing Harry

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Re: Obamanomics: lowest housing prices in a decade
Reply #54 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 2:19pm

Quote:

Only Republican cons would expect a Democratic president to fix their recession in less than four years. I don't remember a single economist predicting a recovery to where we were before the recession so soon. And if there were a Republican in office, you wouldn't be expecting it either. I'm glad you have much higher expectations of Democrats than you do of those failures, the Republicans.

We're worse off than when the recession began. Obama has made things worse, and by his own words, should be replaced.

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Rabbit_Reborn

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Re: Obamanomics: lowest housing prices in a decade
Reply #55 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 2:21pm

Quote:

Only Republican cons would expect a Democratic president to fix their recession in less than four years. I don't remember a single economist predicting a recovery to where we were before the recession so soon. And if there were a Republican in office, you wouldn't be expecting it either. I'm glad you have much higher expectations of Democrats than you do of those failures, the Republicans.

What do you believe the Republicans did to cause the Great Recession that the Democrats weren't also heavily involved in??

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"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain — that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."

—Lysander Spooner, The Constitution of No Authority, 1870

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quiller

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Re: Obamanomics: lowest housing prices in a decade
Reply #56 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 2:24pm

Quote:

I'm glad you have much higher expectations of Democrats than you do of those failures, the Republicans.

So much for Dems assuring us they are so smart.

We can't afford four more years of this failure. Oust the Kenyan, jail his cohorts, and dismantle Marxism in America, starting from the White Mosque on the Potomac.

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forgotten centrist

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Re: Obamanomics: lowest housing prices in a decade
Reply #57 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 2:39pm

patrick2 wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 12:46pm:

Stockman was of course a renegade from the Reagan administration - the phrase remains not any kind of economic argument but an idiot phrase used as agitprop for the unschooled an uniformed. The effects of Reagan's administration are clear: a 17 year boom in the stock market, and a long period of immense growth and high employment. All this, after taking over from Carter who created a debacle of huge interest rates, huge inflation, and unemployment - all at the same time. Reagan's success came even within the context of having to raise taxes for the huge democrat new deal era and johnson era social programs of social security and medicare, now widely recognized as little more than ponzi schemes.

By contrast with "trickle down", the leftwingers' keynesian theory of massive government spending have now had two spectacular failures, once during the Great Depression, and now during the Great Recession - both of which events were brought on themselves by democrat policies

Actually, Reagan (and Stockman, who served 4.5 years under Reagan and only resigned after blabbing to Atlantic) only succeeded in half of their "revolution" -- they cut taxes. They never cut spending, and not surprisingly the economy boomed -- low taxes! high spending! yay! Of course, the national debt went from $1T to $2.6T during Reagan's tenure, giving Dick Cheney his famous talking point that "Reagan showed us deficits don't matter."

As for interest rates -- Carter appointed Volcker to the Fed very near the end of his term, and Reagan reappointed him, even though he raised interest rates sharply under his watch (peaking in 81). You shouldn't denounce this -- Volcker's politically-perilous action killed inflation dead and is probably the single biggest thing that made the ensuing economic boom possible.

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"...whether Leviathan can long endure so wide a chase, and so remorseless a havoc; whether he must not at last be exterminated from the waters, and the last whale, like the last man, smoke his last pipe, and then himself evaporate in the final puff."

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forgotten centrist

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Re: Obamanomics: lowest housing prices in a decade
Reply #58 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 2:43pm

Self-radicalizing Harry wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 2:05pm:

The problem, ironically, is the need to be reelected. Once promised, and implemented, these "benefits" are impossible to get rid of, and when put across seductively, and with no real opposition, sound really good to Johnny Q. Public.

I've said for years that the solution is to go back to a part time legislature such as the one we lived under for decades before getting "stuff" done became so important, and being in the legislature became so profitable.

Term limits, and specified periods in the capitol, except in the event of a real emergency should be how the government is run. These people should have real jobs in their community, and live with the laws they make.

Electoral reform as a prerequisite for political renewal! I like it! Here's my list:
- term limits
- federal ban on gerrymandering
- political donations limited to $2k per individual with NO other funding
- or publicly financed elections
- proportional representation in the House, to enable multiple parties
- return to paper ballots
- free and easy voter registration

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"...whether Leviathan can long endure so wide a chase, and so remorseless a havoc; whether he must not at last be exterminated from the waters, and the last whale, like the last man, smoke his last pipe, and then himself evaporate in the final puff."

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Self-radicalizing Harry

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Re: Obamanomics: lowest housing prices in a decade
Reply #59 - Apr 25^th, 2012 at 2:47pm

forgotten centrist wrote on Apr 25^th, 2012 at 2:43pm:

Electoral reform as a prerequisite for political renewal! I like it! Here's my list:
- term limits
- federal ban on gerrymandering
- political donations limited to $2k per individual with NO other funding
- or publicly financed elections
- proportional representation in the House, to enable multiple parties
- return to paper ballots
- free and easy voter registration

I agree with term limits, and would discuss the ban on gerrymandering. The rest is just more of the same kind of interference that got us to where we are.

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Give me ambiguity, or give me something else.

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