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Genesee

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All in the name of liberty...

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Re: The fair and balanced paradigm..
Reply #50 - Apr 29^th, 2012 at 10:14am

Sandy wrote on Apr 29^th, 2012 at 10:09am:

Part of the beauty of the thing: your incredulity does not stop Joe from deciding slavery is bad any more than it stopped Jefferson, a slave owner til the day he died, from writing passionately about the evil of human bondage. Joe and Jefferson would be alike in that regard.

You're painting roses on a foul dumpster.

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quiller

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Reinstate dueling for
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Re: The fair and balanced paradigm..
Reply #51 - Apr 29^th, 2012 at 10:14am

The leftists here are too freaking ignorant to understand how loathsome these #Occutard maggots appear to the majority of Americans.

Ignore what we do. Believe only what we say. We're liberals. We don't have to make sense. We BELIEVE. We don't have to live decently.

Who ya gonna believe, your lying eyes showing the guys in HazMat suits cleaning our our public parks turned into outhouses --- or some pathetic propaganda from the same halfwit trash who think Hussein can turn ANYTHING around in American business, after scooping ice cream for Baskin Robbins?

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Self-radicalizing Harry

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I used to be Bert, but
something went terribly
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Re: The fair and balanced paradigm..
Reply #52 - Apr 29^th, 2012 at 10:30am

Sandy wrote on Apr 29^th, 2012 at 9:58am:

No one is saying personal responsibility is a bad thing. But it has no tangible connection with the worth or value of a political idea. If Joe is an unmovable couch potato who farts at his kids and throws his chip bags and beer cans all over the floor for his wife to clean up, but he's the one who coins the notion that slavery is a bad thing (an idea no more ironic in Joe than it was in Thomas Jefferson), then Joe's idea itself is worthless because he's a slob? Is that really what you're saying?

If you aren't personally responsible, how can your political ideas be responsible?

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Give me ambiguity, or give me something else.

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SiouxRebel

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Explaining the Foundations
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Re: The fair and balanced paradigm..
Reply #53 - Apr 29^th, 2012 at 11:01am

Self-radicalizing Harry wrote on Apr 29^th, 2012 at 10:30am:

If you aren't personally responsible, how can your political ideas be responsible?

Both Washington, and Jefferson, as examples, owned slaves. Does that make them any less "responsible"?

In modern times, most, if not all, legislators of either party own shares in the stock market which benefited highly from their actions on both sides. Are they then acting responsibly? And if so, why are Republicans more "responsible" in their actions?

Want to talk about JFK? Clinton? Bush?

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1Samuel 8: 19,20
"Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us; That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles."

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TowardLiberty

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anti-state, anti-war and
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Re: The fair and balanced paradigm..
Reply #54 - Apr 29^th, 2012 at 11:02am

Genesee wrote on Apr 28^th, 2012 at 10:47am:

Why not just have one Independent/Moderate? That would cover a wide spectrum, including the minarchist.

Having an anarchist on the panel would be a total waste of time. They may as well ask the opinion of the studio's wallpaper.

I have never heard an "independent/moderate" say anything I liked.

Usually these are the biggest violators of individual liberty. They have no principles.

Your statement of anarchy here can only be taken as a statement of personal preference.

You may dismiss them but truth be told anarchy is the only sensible solution. People cant keep living under governments.

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"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard

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TowardLiberty

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Re: The fair and balanced paradigm..
Reply #55 - Apr 29^th, 2012 at 11:04am

Sandy wrote on Apr 28^th, 2012 at 11:13am:

I hate to tell you but almost all "individualists" are interchangeable too, and compared to the measured, carefully rehearsed talking points of the specifically political arms, must either sound like they're agreeing with one or both, or, in trying to maintain an "individualist" identity, will end up coming across in tone and content as maybe an inch or two shy of crazy. I wonder if you take any of the last of the Tea Partiers as "individualists?" These people who bring guns to political rallies, and trade birther conspiracy theories among themselves, and mutter darkly about the secret agenda of the UN and weather control and phone taps and black helicopters?

Just which individual would you have speak for all individuals?

I think you may not understand what I mean by the term.

An individualist is someone who holds all violations of individual liberty to be unjust.

For them individual liberty is the highest political good.

So no interpersonal cost and benefit calculations are possible. No sacrifice for the greater good is logical.

The whole social engineering edifice collapses as so much nonsense.

And who could speak for all individualists?

Hans Hoppe? Walter Block? Robert Murphy?

The list is rather large.

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"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard

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duster

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Re: The fair and balanced paradigm..
Reply #56 - Apr 29^th, 2012 at 11:12am

TowardLiberty wrote on Apr 29^th, 2012 at 11:04am:

I think you may not understand what I mean by the term.

An individualist is someone who holds all violations of individual liberty to be unjust.

For them individual liberty is the highest political good.

So no interpersonal cost and benefit calculations are possible. No sacrifice for the greater good is logical.

The whole social engineering edifice collapses as so much nonsense.

And who could speak for all individualists?

Hans Hoppe? Walter Block? Robert Murphy?

The list is rather large.

You must understand that the left only recognizes the collective and places NO importance on the individual. Diametrically opposed to Americanism.

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Sandy LNF Party Leader Offline I Love Liberty News Forum! Posts: 4,604 Right here Gender:	Re: The fair and balanced paradigm.. Reply #57 - Apr 29^th, 2012 at 11:17am duster wrote on Apr 29^th, 2012 at 10:10am: I can't believe that you don't know what G. Washington did. What Washington did as an individual of exemplary character (in some ways, not so emulatory in others) does not apply to what others do regardless of their personal character. Are you arguing?
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Sandy LNF Party Leader Offline I Love Liberty News Forum! Posts: 4,604 Right here Gender:	Re: The fair and balanced paradigm.. Reply #58 - Apr 29^th, 2012 at 11:18am Genesee wrote on Apr 29^th, 2012 at 10:14am: You're painting roses on a foul dumpster. You're grumbling under "sour grapes."
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duster

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Re: The fair and balanced paradigm..
Reply #59 - Apr 29^th, 2012 at 11:19am

Sandy wrote on Apr 29^th, 2012 at 11:17am:

What Washington did as an individual of exemplary character (in some ways, not so emulatory in others) does not apply to what others do regardless of their personal character. Are you arguing?

You asked for examples of character influencing political position.
I gave you one.

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