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Mercy For All LNF Moderator The Writer's Croft LNF Bunker Offline Be completely alive until you're completely dead. Posts: 36,937 Gender:	Re: Faith vs. Evidence. Reply #10 - Jun 27^th, 2012 at 1:12am DV wrote on Jun 26^th, 2012 at 6:57pm: You're right . . . there was obviously enough to trigger the creation of a legend. My point exactly...
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CubaLibre

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Re: Faith vs. Evidence.
Reply #11 - Jun 27^th, 2012 at 8:24am

I would add that evidence itself is often used to support different views. For example, the perfect order of the universe, the exactness of everything, is to me evidence of some sort wisdom behind it all, of someone who must have put these things in place.

To nonbelievers, I would assume such things are the evidence simply of the laws of nature.

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Jack Fate

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Re: Faith vs. Evidence.
Reply #12 - Jun 27^th, 2012 at 12:16pm

CubaLibre wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 8:24am:

I would add that evidence itself is often used to support different views. For example, the perfect order of the universe, the exactness of everything, is to me evidence of some sort wisdom behind it all, of someone who must have put these things in place.

To nonbelievers, I would assume such things are the evidence simply of the laws of nature.

Einstein believed in intelligent design.

He also made the following statement in an essay entitled "The Religiousness of Science," which appeared in a collection of his essays published in English under the title "The World As I See It":

"The scientist is possessed by the sense of universal causation....His religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an INTELLIGENCE of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection. This feeling is the guiding principle of his life and work, in so far as he succeeds in keeping himself from the shackles of selfish desire" (Updike 2007: 77 [emphasis added]).

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Jack Fate LNF Representative2 Offline I Love Liberty News Forum! Posts: 2,732	Re: Faith vs. Evidence. Reply #13 - Jun 27^th, 2012 at 12:19pm When a person no longer questions new information, they have stepped over in the Ideology camp. Global warming, for instance. People will believe it regardless of new evidence. Their minds are shut like the vault to Ft. Knox. Intolerant closed mindedness from those who demand tolerance for their ideas.
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DV LNF Representative2 Online RELIGION IS BLISS Posts: 1,665 Gender:	Re: Faith vs. Evidence. Reply #14 - Jun 27^th, 2012 at 5:58pm Mercy For All wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 1:12am: My point exactly... Right . . . the evidence is sufficient to foster the creation of a legend . . . . not to support a reality.
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Mercy For All

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Re: Faith vs. Evidence.
Reply #15 - Jun 27^th, 2012 at 9:54pm

DV wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 5:58pm:

Right . . . the evidence is sufficient to foster the creation of a legend . . . . not to support a reality.

No, my point was that there was enough evidence to...well, to change the world. The idea of this evidence sparking a legend is untenable; there simply isn't enough time between the claimed historical events and the documented claims of said events for a legend to develop. If this were truly the case, it would be historically unparalleled and would take at least as much "faith" as believing the claims of Christianity to be true.

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Re: Faith vs. Evidence.
Reply #16 - Jun 28^th, 2012 at 11:48am

Mercy For All wrote on Jun 27^th, 2012 at 9:54pm:

No, my point was that there was enough evidence to...well, to change the world. The idea of this evidence sparking a legend is untenable; there simply isn't enough time between the claimed historical events and the documented claims of said events for a legend to develop. If this were truly the case, it would be historically unparalleled and would take at least as much "faith" as believing the claims of Christianity to be true.

The evidence did not change the world. Delusion and zealotry with regard to a delusion did, and in many ways, some good, some bad.

Any reasonably thoughtful person can put the “legend-time” proposition to rest in very short order.

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Mercy For All LNF Moderator The Writer's Croft LNF Bunker Offline Be completely alive until you're completely dead. Posts: 36,937 Gender:	Re: Faith vs. Evidence. Reply #17 - Jun 28^th, 2012 at 3:17pm DV wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 11:48am: Any reasonably thoughtful person can put the “legend-time” proposition to rest in very short order. Then please elucidate...keeping in mind the dating of the earliest references to a crucified man as "Lord" with the implied equivalence with "God" (or, more specifically, YHWH).
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Re: Faith vs. Evidence.
Reply #18 - Jun 28^th, 2012 at 6:32pm

Mercy For All wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 3:17pm:

Then please elucidate...keeping in mind the dating of the earliest references to a crucified man as "Lord" with the implied equivalence with "God" (or, more specifically, YHWH).

The dating of a document is almost irrelvant to the inquiry. There are too many other unknowns and possibilities. Why don't you present your best case scenario with respect to the document?

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Mercy For All

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Re: Faith vs. Evidence.
Reply #19 - Jun 28^th, 2012 at 11:08pm

DV wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 6:32pm:

The dating of a document is almost irrelvant to the inquiry. There are too many other unknowns and possibilities. Why don't you present your best case scenario with respect to the document?

One of the earliest texts that seems to equate Jesus with YHWH probably dates to maybe 15 years after the death of Christ. Pretty early for the development of a legend, don't you think?

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