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patrick2

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Question 11 for Christians
Jun 28^th, 2012 at 5:48pm

Christians adjure people to have faith. Indeed, for followers of religions, faith is required because no proof is ever offered. But why tell people this? They either have faith, or they don't. Telling someone to have faith is like telling someone to "be handsome" or "have a high IQ". They either have it or they don't.

An aside: I would like to reiterate what I said in the beginning of this series of questions - I respect all people with a religion, and never have nor never would denigrate any religion. In fact I have strongly spoken out here and elsewhere against the leftwing war against religion. I realize anti-religious acts have caused a great deal of human misery (eg, the Holocaust) and would never be party to any of it.

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patrick2 LNF Majority Leader Offline I Love Liberty News Forum! Posts: 5,314 Gender:	Re: Question 11 for Christians Reply #1 - Jun 28^th, 2012 at 11:04pm Hellllloooooooooooooooo...........??
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Mercy For All

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Re: Question 11 for Christians
Reply #2 - Jun 28^th, 2012 at 11:10pm

patrick2 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 5:48pm:

Christians adjure people to have faith. Indeed, for followers of religions, faith is required because no proof is ever offered. But why tell people this? They either have faith, or they don't. Telling someone to have faith is like telling someone to "be handsome" or "have a high IQ". They either have it or they don't.

That's not true. That's not a biblical definition of faith. The definition of faith as "believing something for which there is no evidence" is an Enlightenment construct and it is anachronistic to impose that definition on biblical texts that speak of "faith."

Quote:

An aside: I would like to reiterate what I said in the beginning of this series of questions - I respect all people with a religion, and never have nor never would denigrate any religion. In fact I have strongly spoken out here and elsewhere against the leftwing war against religion. I realize anti-religious acts have caused a great deal of human misery (eg, the Holocaust) and would never be party to any of it.

Yes, I have seen your posts.

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patrick2

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Re: Question 11 for Christians
Reply #3 - Jun 28^th, 2012 at 11:23pm

Mercy For All wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 11:10pm:

That's not true. That's not a biblical definition of faith. The definition of faith as "believing something for which there is no evidence" is an Enlightenment construct and it is anachronistic to impose that definition on biblical texts that speak of "faith."

Then one wonders why when they translated the Bible into english, they used the word "faith". In any case, what is the biblical definition?

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jeff

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Re: Question 11 for Christians
Reply #4 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 1:17am

patrick2 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 11:23pm:

Then one wonders why when they translated the Bible into english, they used the word "faith". In any case, what is the biblical definition?

that's the trouble with any translational work... there is never an exact translation between words and translation has an even greater impediment with the transition of culture and time.
words have denotative as well as connotative meaning and both are generally affected by culture. that's why even in English there are no exact synonyms. when you remove a language from its original cultural context and translate it, finding exact synonyms in the translated language is even more difficult. that's why there are whole lexicons on the translated meanings of words.

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patrick2

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Re: Question 11 for Christians
Reply #5 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 2:32am

Quote:

that's the trouble with any translational work... there is never an exact translation between words and translation has an even greater impediment with the transition of culture and time.
words have denotative as well as connotative meaning and both are generally affected by culture. that's why even in English there are no exact synonyms. when you remove a language from its original cultural context and translate it, finding exact synonyms in the translated language is even more difficult. that's why there are whole lexicons on the translated meanings of words.

Yep, but if there is no exact word, there's always a phrase. E.g. "zeitgeist" - spirit of the times, weltanschauung - world view. Can someone offer a translation using several words from the Biblical "faith"?

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Mercy For All

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Re: Question 11 for Christians
Reply #6 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:00am

patrick2 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2012 at 2:32am:

Yep, but if there is no exact word, there's always a phrase. E.g. "zeitgeist" - spirit of the times, weltanschauung - world view. Can someone offer a translation using several words from the Biblical "faith"?

It's one of the reasons that the GOD's Word Translation is my favorite right now. It translates the Hebrew and Greek words for "faith" as "trust." Incidentally, it also translates the word traditionally translated "repent" as "change the way you think and act."

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joe_christian LNF Speaker Offline Religious Rights Posts: 27,973 Gender:	Re: Question 11 for Christians Reply #7 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:22am patrick2 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 11:04pm: Hellllloooooooooooooooo...........?? What's your problem?
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joe_christian LNF Speaker Offline Religious Rights Posts: 27,973 Gender:	Re: Question 11 for Christians Reply #8 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:24am Mercy For All wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 11:10pm: Yes, I have seen your posts. Have you ever seen anything so stupid?
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joe_christian LNF Speaker Offline Religious Rights Posts: 27,973 Gender:	Re: Question 11 for Christians Reply #9 - Jun 29^th, 2012 at 6:26am patrick2 wrote on Jun 28^th, 2012 at 11:23pm: Then one wonders why when they translated the Bible into english, they used the word "faith". One what wonders - one Christian or one idiot like you? Quote: In any case, what is the biblical definition? Look it up in a Bible dictionary, idiot.
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