Liberty News Forum
Political News Forum - Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. Not for wimps!
Political Opinion Page - Recent Posts - LNF Forums LNF in the Age of Empowerment!
Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Entertainment - Sports Forum
Military - A1 News Page - Computers Tech - Financial News - Bunker - Presidential Tracking Poll
The House - Off the Wall News - Page 2 - Rasmussen Reports Polls - Chat Room
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereChristian Forum › Archeological Finds.
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Archeological Finds. (Read 15,520 times)
Seawolf
LNF Moderator
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 20,859
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Archeological Finds.
Reply #100 - Aug 10th, 2017 at 4:28pm
Print Post  
Limey wrote on Aug 9th, 2017 at 9:30pm:
Sorry Seawolf but no.


You can dig up every city and show me the bones of Rahab, that doesn't help you to show the divinity of anything.


We already know that the Israelites were terrifying mass murderers, proving their awful crimes don't show God was the guilty party.

No, you are wrong.  It's really very reasonable and simple deduction Limey.  Bad history, bad book.  Let me ask you, what good is the author if his facts are constantly false?  Would you rush to the store to buy more of his books knowing that nothing he prints is correct?  Same with scripture, if the history is incorrect the book itself stands fundamentally wrong.  Regarding Israel's past, they were also rebuked and chastised by God on multiple occasions for their rebellion against God's commandments.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 15,967
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: Archeological Finds.
Reply #101 - Aug 10th, 2017 at 9:07pm
Print Post  
This is a slightly silly discussion.

You're arguing in effect that because some statements in a document are true, and demonstrated so by evidence , other statements in the document are also true.


Even though they are not supported at all other than by assertion.


Here is an example of why your argument is rubbish :


I am 6 feet one inch  tall. (demonstrably true regardless of prejudice)


I have a bald spot on the crown of my head. (I can send pictures)

My skin is "white" (actually more kind of beige, but culturally we say "white" - I can show you links to YouTube videos of me without a t-shirt on.


I can fly like Superman.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Moderator
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 20,859
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Archeological Finds.
Reply #102 - Aug 10th, 2017 at 10:03pm
Print Post  
Limey wrote on Aug 10th, 2017 at 9:07pm:
This is a slightly silly discussion.

You're arguing in effect that because some statements in a document are true, and demonstrated so by evidence , other statements in the document are also true.


Even though they are not supported at all other than by assertion.


Here is an example of why your argument is rubbish :


I am 6 feet one inch  tall. (demonstrably true regardless of prejudice)


I have a bald spot on the crown of my head. (I can send pictures)

My skin is "white" (actually more kind of beige, but culturally we say "white" - I can show you links to YouTube videos of me without a t-shirt on.


I can fly like Superman.

You do understand you are on a Christian forum?  The subject is not meant for someone of your belief but more towards people of faith to share and discuss God's word.  The discussion is not relevant to this forum and more towards the religion forum.  I am only pointing it out because I do not expect you to agree on this subject but it is not posted for your as it is towards believers.  Just so we are on the same page here.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 15,967
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: Archeological Finds.
Reply #103 - Aug 11th, 2017 at 3:30pm
Print Post  
Seawolf wrote on Aug 10th, 2017 at 10:03pm:
You do understand you are on a Christian forum?  The subject is not meant for someone of your belief but more towards people of faith to share and discuss God's word.  The discussion is not relevant to this forum and more towards the religion forum.  I am only pointing it out because I do not expect you to agree on this subject but it is not posted for your as it is towards believers.  Just so we are on the same page here.


Actually, I thought this thread was on Religion forum - oops and sorry.

However, and with respect, my points still stand.


You'll note that my points in no way argue against anything in the Bible, nor against religious faith.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Moderator
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 20,859
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Archeological Finds.
Reply #104 - Aug 11th, 2017 at 4:31pm
Print Post  
Limey wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 3:30pm:
Actually, I thought this thread was on Religion forum - oops and sorry.

However, and with respect, my points still stand.


You'll note that my points in no way argue against anything in the Bible, nor against religious faith.

No problem Limey, I get what you are saying.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 15,967
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: Archeological Finds.
Reply #105 - Aug 11th, 2017 at 4:34pm
Print Post  
Seawolf wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 4:31pm:
No problem Limey, I get what you are saying.



Maybe I should post on the Pedantry forum instead.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
EF
LNF House Leader
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
****
Offline


Posts: 8,254
Joined: Jan 21st, 2012
Re: Archeological Finds.
Reply #106 - Aug 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm
Print Post  
Seawolf wrote on Aug 10th, 2017 at 4:28pm:
No, you are wrong.  It's really very reasonable and simple deduction Limey.  Bad history, bad book.  Let me ask you, what good is the author if his facts are constantly false?  Would you rush to the store to buy more of his books knowing that nothing he prints is correct?  Same with scripture, if the history is incorrect the book itself stands fundamentally wrong.  Regarding Israel's past, they were also rebuked and chastised by God on multiple occasions for their rebellion against God's commandments.


Do you believe, as Ken Ham does, that the Genesis account clearly teaches the earth is only 6,000 to 10,000 years old? 
  

non sumus stulti
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
EF
LNF House Leader
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
****
Offline


Posts: 8,254
Joined: Jan 21st, 2012
Re: Archeological Finds.
Reply #107 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 10:26am
Print Post  
EF wrote on Aug 11th, 2017 at 9:33pm:
Do you believe, as Ken Ham does, that the Genesis account clearly teaches the earth is only 6,000 to 10,000 years old? 


The reason I ask that question, to which I don't really expect an answer, is this: Ken Ham firmly believes the Bible clearly teaches that, and if it's NOT true, then the things the Bible teaches that cannot be proved but must be accepted without physical evidence are suspect as well.  And that's a valid point, IF the Bible clearly teaches that.

But what if it doesn't?  People used to believe it clearly taught that the earth was the center of the universe, it being listed as created before the sun, and burned "heretics" at the stake for suggesting otherwise.  No one, not even Ken Ham, denies that the sun is the center of the universe.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to believe in a Creator and to accept that the book of Genesis teaches that God "created," and not that "God created 10,000 or 6,000 years ago."  I had a discussion with a fellow who believes in a young earth, an educated smart man (yes Bowhunter, he was and many of them who believe likewise are) who said the word "yom," used in Genesis, ALWAYS means a literal 24-hour period throughout the rest of the Bible.  (Which it does, except when it doesn't.)

As Brother Limey eloquently pointed out, salting a long list of truths with a few lies does not make the lies true.  As I (and others point out), belief in a Creator merely requires acknowledging that that which we can see around us must have been created.  Believing in Jesus requires a supernatural act on the part of God.  At least that's what the Book says. 

And having some teachings that might not be meant to be taken literally (like a 6 day, 24 hour day at that) creation 10,000 (or 6,000) years ago creation story does not change that.

One can accept that the earth is old, God created it, and Jesus is His Son.  Seminaries who teach otherwise are, IMO, way off base if not downright tools of Satan.  They may as well keep teaching that the earth is the center of the universe.  But one can also believe the earth is young, IMO, without fear of being called stupid (at least by me). 
  

non sumus stulti
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Moderator
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 20,859
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Archeological Finds.
Reply #108 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 5:09pm
Print Post  
I do lean strongly with the Bible and Ham.  When you do the genealogy it adds up to 6-10k years.  Let me ask you, if Adam and Eve were created as adults, similarly the animals of the Kingdom, why not earth with apparent age?  No where in the Bible does God say he created Adam and Eve as children, so thus they appear as if they are aged when in reality they were not.

  What you may be doing is trying to define the limits of God and I dare not do so because his reasoning and intellect far exceeds ours to even scratch the initial surface of him.  We argue from our perspective and many times we tend to give him characteristics of our human reasoning.  That leads to us worshiping a false god.  I have no reason to doubt the intent of the author or God's ability.

  Having said all of this what is the utmost importance is not how old is the earth, but do you accept his payment for your sins.  We always seem to get caught up in the minutia and then the entire focus is lost.  There are so many events that many will question but I accept them all.  Do we also doubt that he parted the waters and delivered the Jews from the Egyptians?  How about leading his people by cloud during the day and by fire at night.

  It will not stop there, ultimately many will also doubt that Jesus was raised from the dead.  On and on it goes.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
EF
LNF House Leader
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
****
Offline


Posts: 8,254
Joined: Jan 21st, 2012
Re: Archeological Finds.
Reply #109 - Aug 13th, 2017 at 10:07pm
Print Post  
Seawolf wrote on Aug 13th, 2017 at 5:09pm:
I do lean strongly with the Bible and Ham.  When you do the genealogy it adds up to 6-10k years.  Let me ask you, if Adam and Eve were created as adults, similarly the animals of the Kingdom, why not earth with apparent age?  No where in the Bible does God say he created Adam and Eve as children, so thus they appear as if they are aged when in reality they were not.

  What you may be doing is trying to define the limits of God and I dare not do so because his reasoning and intellect far exceeds ours to even scratch the initial surface of him.  We argue from our perspective and many times we tend to give him characteristics of our human reasoning.  That leads to us worshiping a false god.  I have no reason to doubt the intent of the author or God's ability.

  Having said all of this what is the utmost importance is not how old is the earth, but do you accept his payment for your sins.  We always seem to get caught up in the minutia and then the entire focus is lost.  There are so many events that many will question but I accept them all.  Do we also doubt that he parted the waters and delivered the Jews from the Egyptians?  How about leading his people by cloud during the day and by fire at night.

  It will not stop there, ultimately many will also doubt that Jesus was raised from the dead.  On and on it goes.


First highlight:
I have heard that many times before, but I don't buy it.

Second highlight:
I have never tried to "define the limits of God" and have always recognized He could easily create a universe that LOOKS, based on objective observation, 14 billion (or whatever) years old but is, in reality, only 6,000 to 10,000 years old.  But why?  It is not part and parcel of being saved.  If it were, then it would have a purpose, and maybe it is and I just don't know it.  But I don't think so.

Third highlight:
If Ken Ham is not guilty of that, then no one is.
  

non sumus stulti
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 9 10 [11] 12 13 
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereChristian Forum › Archeological Finds.

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules