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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Paul: Vaccines can cause 'profound mental disorders'
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Paul: Vaccines can cause 'profound mental disorders' (Read 6,164 times)
wyattstorch2004
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Re: Paul: Vaccines can cause 'profound mental disorders'
Reply #10 - Feb 2nd, 2015 at 11:50pm
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Possibly Logical wrote on Feb 2nd, 2015 at 11:42pm:
I think that if he had the chance to say it again, I think he would have probably stated it a little better.


There is an interesting question here. When, as in the case of vaccines, there is overwhelming evidence of their benefit should parents be responsible for vaccinating their children. We are not dealing with property here. If a child does not get a vaccination, she could die. Should the parents be held responsible when that happens? The child is in their care, and there are reasonable steps that could have been taken.


I think that a parent should be held liable for death or injury that arises out of their negligence.

I don't think that means forced vaccination.  I think it means that if you are going to choose not to vaccinate, you better be prepared to be able to have the child treated (as well as keeping the child from spreading it) such that it doesn't cost them their life or cause them permanent harm or expect to liable for your negligence.

You do raise an interesting question.  Where do you stand?
  
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Re: Paul: Vaccines can cause 'profound mental disorders'
Reply #11 - Feb 3rd, 2015 at 12:14am
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wyattstorch2004 wrote on Feb 2nd, 2015 at 11:50pm:
I think that a parent should be held liable for death or injury that arises out of their negligence.

I don't think that means forced vaccination.  I think it means that if you are going to choose not to vaccinate, you better be prepared to be able to have the child treated (as well as keeping the child from spreading it) such that it doesn't cost them their life or cause them permanent harm or expect to liable for your negligence.

You do raise an interesting question.  Where do you stand?


I'm inclined to believe that the legal system issues would make the situation a mess. How do you assign liability for these types of things when multiple people are at fault. How do you detect the transmission from one person to another? It generally seems less than ideal.

My inclination is that they should be required, but I don't really like the idea of requiring such things because there are often reasonable objections that people have.


(I have no issue subsidizing vaccinations, particularly for those who cannot afford them.)
  
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Re: Paul: Vaccines can cause 'profound mental disorders'
Reply #12 - Feb 3rd, 2015 at 5:36am
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Having had the measles and chicken pox and mumps and having raised kids who had all three (no vaccinations available at the time or we didn't know about them)), I suggest parents get their kids vaccinated against all three diseases.  These diseases are not fun for the kids or the parents.  Now measles is rearing its ugly head because of the parents who wouldn't have their kids vaccinated and depended upon other parents to have their kids vaccinated.  Evidently it doesn't work that way. 

Keep the govt out of making the decision, though.  If you want to ignore the vaccinations and let your kid catch the disease, that should be up to you.  You'll be the one who has to listen to the little kid cry and keep telling him not to scratch (impossible feat for an adult), and try to find a lotion that soothes for more than three seconds.  In reality, it isn't any business of the govt's.
  
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Re: Paul: Vaccines can cause 'profound mental disorders'
Reply #13 - Feb 3rd, 2015 at 9:17am
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I'm pretty surprised at Paul for this one -- him being a certified ophthalmologist and all.

There are large holes appearing in our vaccination coverage, which is why this is a hot issue right now.  It's easy to say that the government has no business requiring vaccinations, and that people should make up their own minds, but then certain groups of people will introduce disease vectors that threaten the rest of the population.

There will always be some people who can't get vaccinated -- infants, cancer patients, etc -- and they will be at much greater risk when we decide to let entire communities forgo.  If a government mandate isn't the answer, then maybe MUCH stronger government outreach and education is called for.
  

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Re: Paul: Vaccines can cause 'profound mental disorders'
Reply #14 - Feb 3rd, 2015 at 9:41am
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Reading more on the issue this morning.  Technically, parents are not absolutely required to vaccinate their kids -- they are only required to do so when they send them to public schools.  So homeschoolers and the like have a back door.  Or you can have a private school without that requirement, though I suspect that school will go out of business after the first measles outbreak.
  

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Re: Paul: Vaccines can cause 'profound mental disorders'
Reply #15 - Feb 3rd, 2015 at 10:59am
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forgotten centrist wrote on Feb 3rd, 2015 at 9:41am:
Reading more on the issue this morning.  Technically, parents are not absolutely required to vaccinate their kids -- they are only required to do so when they send them to public schools.  So homeschoolers and the like have a back door.  Or you can have a private school without that requirement, though I suspect that school will go out of business after the first measles outbreak.


Religious exemption exist and those children are in public schools..

  The statement was made that if a parent decides to not vaccinate their child they should be held criminally responsible if said child dies from that horrible chicken pox disease, what about if the child dies or suffers a reaction to that same said vaccine, can we then expect the doctor giving that shot to also go to jail?
  
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Re: Paul: Vaccines can cause 'profound mental disorders'
Reply #16 - Feb 3rd, 2015 at 11:19am
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AmericanMom wrote on Feb 3rd, 2015 at 10:59am:
Religious exemption exist and those children are in public schools..

  The statement was made that if a parent decides to not vaccinate their child they should be held criminally responsible if said child dies from that horrible chicken pox disease, what about if the child dies or suffers a reaction to that same said vaccine, can we then expect the doctor giving that shot to also go to jail? 


What if a parent's choice (not to vaccinate) ends up killing someone else's child?  Theirs gets the measles, and passes it on to the community, and some baby dies from it?

If you follow this logic all the way, you will get into the statistics, and the statistics are very clear -- getting vaccinated is far safer than not getting vaccinated.
  

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Re: Paul: Vaccines can cause 'profound mental disorders'
Reply #17 - Feb 3rd, 2015 at 11:23am
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What if a parent's choice (not to vaccinate) ends up killing someone else's child?  Theirs gets the measles, and passes it on to the community, and some baby dies from it?


How is it that a vaccinated child is in danger from an unvaccinated child...seems it would be the other way around.

If you follow this logic all the way, you will get into the statistics, and the statistics are very clear -- getting vaccinated is far safer than not getting vaccinated.

I am not convinced of that, If we allow the state to determine that its for the greater good of everyone so therefor everyone must be vaccinated regardless of religion or personal beliefs then we are one step away from forced abortions/sterilizations etc.   I am the parent, I decide what is best for my children
  
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Re: Paul: Vaccines can cause 'profound mental disorders'
Reply #18 - Feb 3rd, 2015 at 11:40am
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AmericanMom wrote on Feb 3rd, 2015 at 11:23am:
What if a parent's choice (not to vaccinate) ends up killing someone else's child?  Theirs gets the measles, and passes it on to the community, and some baby dies from it?


How is it that a vaccinated child is in danger from an unvaccinated child...seems it would be the other way around.

If you follow this logic all the way, you will get into the statistics, and the statistics are very clear -- getting vaccinated is far safer than not getting vaccinated.

I am not convinced of that, If we allow the state to determine that its for the greater good of everyone so therefor everyone must be vaccinated regardless of religion or personal beliefs then we are one step away from forced abortions/sterilizations etc.   I am the parent, I decide what is best for my children


There are some who can't get vaccinated.  Infants don't get the first MMR shot until they're at least 12 months.  Your decision on what is best for your child might be putting other children at risk.  You're basically saying that if your unvaccinated child picks up the measles at disneyland and then passes it on to some baby sitting in a stroller at the playground, "tough luck".  It is not that simple.  In a sense, your rights stop when you start hurting someone else.

And parents rights are not supreme.  You can't starve your children.  You have to get them medical treatment if necessary.  You can't abuse them or lock them in a closet for a week as punishment.  Your parental rights do NOT extend that far.

Vaccinations are sort of in a gray area, and our laws have allowed backdoors and loopholes to keep expanding.  But the science and statistics are very clear.  If you don't vaccinate your kids, you are going against all the best medical advice, common sense, community responsibility, and the long-term interests of your children.
  

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Re: Paul: Vaccines can cause 'profound mental disorders'
Reply #19 - Feb 3rd, 2015 at 11:52am
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forgotten centrist wrote on Feb 3rd, 2015 at 11:40am:
There are some who can't get vaccinated.  Infants don't get the first MMR shot until they're at least 12 months.  Your decision on what is best for your child might be putting other children at risk.  You're basically saying that if your unvaccinated child picks up the measles at disneyland and then passes it on to some baby sitting in a stroller at the playground, "tough luck".  It is not that simple.  In a sense, your rights stop when you start hurting someone else.

And parents rights are not supreme.  You can't starve your children.  You have to get them medical treatment if necessary.  You can't abuse them or lock them in a closet for a week as punishment.  Your parental rights do NOT extend that far.

Vaccinations are sort of in a gray area, and our laws have allowed backdoors and loopholes to keep expanding.  But the science and statistics are very clear.  If you don't vaccinate your kids, you are going against all the best medical advice, common sense, community responsibility, and the long-term interests of your children.



I always find it amazing how quickly those that are for personal freedoms, freedom of religion, our rights as Americans will turn on a dime when it comes to stuff like this..  As I stated before, if we continue to allow the state to determine what is best for us as parents and force us to go against something that is deeply seeded in our beliefs then don't be surprised when the state comes after something that is just as important to you.   The science is not very clear, even the CDC cannot say that vaccines are 100% effective or safe.  We do not know exactly why the sudden rise in Autism in the past 25 years or so... Some say its vaccines, some say its GMO's. There is no doubt that some vaccines have harmed our children, even killed them. The effects are not known until the vaccine is given.  I for one would never advocate forcing an American parent to vaccinate a child no more than I would force an American parent to abort a child that has a disability.  At some point we have to stand up and say enough is enough.
  
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