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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) "Saudi cleric rejects that Earth revolves around the Sun" (Read 12,679 times)
Limey.
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Re: "Saudi cleric rejects that Earth revolves around the Sun"
Reply #140 - Mar 5th, 2015 at 10:37pm
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Seawolf wrote on Mar 5th, 2015 at 10:30pm:
Let me say this. If there is no God based on your belief that science proves it,




Why do you make stuff up?

I have never said, and never will say, that science proves there's no God.

Quote:
then history must also support your claim.  If that is the case there can be no Noah, no Moses, no Abraham, No Isaac, No Ismael. 



You've lost your grip, man.

Not believing in God is not the same as saying the Bible is entirely fictional

Quote:
If you have not Isaac or Ishmael then you can have no Jews or Arabs.  No prophets, no kingdom of Israel, no King David, or King Solomon, no lineage leading to the birth of Jesus, no apostles, no crucifiction, no reserrection.  In essence, there could be absolutely no proof of God in the history of mankind.


There is no proof.


Only belief.

What's the point you're groping for Seawolf mate, try again!
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Limey.
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Re: "Saudi cleric rejects that Earth revolves around the Sun"
Reply #141 - Mar 5th, 2015 at 10:39pm
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Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, sheesh!


Eh?
  

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Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: "Saudi cleric rejects that Earth revolves around the Sun"
Reply #142 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 3:33am
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I thought it all revolved around me. Isn't it obvious?
  

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Re: "Saudi cleric rejects that Earth revolves around the Sun"
Reply #143 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 5:08am
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For Educational Purposes Only wrote on Mar 6th, 2015 at 3:33am:
I thought it all revolved around me. Isn't it obvious?


But Jasmine says it all revolves around her.
  

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Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Seawolf
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Re: "Saudi cleric rejects that Earth revolves around the Sun"
Reply #144 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 5:40am
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Limey. wrote on Mar 5th, 2015 at 10:37pm:
Why do you make stuff up?

I have never said, and never will say, that science proves there's no God.



You've lost your grip, man.

Not believing in God is not the same as saying the Bible is entirely fictional


There is no proof.

Only belief.

What's the point you're groping for Seawolf mate, try again!

I believe it is, the Bible is the recorded history of God.  If no God, fictional as Fiddler says, then everything in the Bible is fictional.  Your remarks contradict themselves.  You just state no proof, which means the Bible can not be trusted and everything I stated above can not be true.
« Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2015 at 5:48am by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: "Saudi cleric rejects that Earth revolves around the Sun"
Reply #145 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 7:14am
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Seawolf wrote on Mar 6th, 2015 at 5:40am:
I believe it is, the Bible is the recorded history of God.  If no God, fictional as Fiddler says, then everything in the Bible is fictional.  Your remarks contradict themselves.  You just state no proof, which means the Bible can not be trusted and everything I stated above can not be true.



You are having trouble with this.

Take a deep breath, concentrate.

The Bible is, undoubtedly, a collection of books which contain a great deal that is historically accurate; indeed, it is a primary source or at least a good secondary source for much historical study.

That is true regardless of whether, as you believe, it is the revealed word of God or, as I believe, it isn't.

So, to say that 'if there is no God, the whole Bible is fictional' makes no sense at all.

Really, Seawolf, I am not trying to make some smart arse Atheist point here, this is a matter of language.

Back to the earlier discussion, science neither proves God's existence, nor disproves it, nor attempts to do either.

It can't, and no reputable scientist would even try, other than as a parlour game.

But, things like plate tectonics are no more in dispute than things like the tide, or clouds.

You can see them, albeit in the case of plate tectonics it is so slow that you need sensitive measuring kit.

You are right; an omnipotent God could of course generate the world as it is now in seven days.

However, if He did so, He made a very good stab at putting in this new world some consistent, coherent and compelling (to our eyes) evidence for things such as evolution and the movement over aeons of the continents.

Not saying He couldn't - that sort of is what 'omnipotent' means - just saying that the evidence we have, on the physical laws we have/have been given, is that things don't necessarily tally with a literal reading of the Bible in every detail.

Why He would wish to put this quandary down for us - i.e. a set of beliefs that He requires, that are inconsistent with the evidence of our own eyes - I don't know, but then there is this word 'ineffable' too, isn't there?
  

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Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: "Saudi cleric rejects that Earth revolves around the Sun"
Reply #146 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 8:47am
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Limey. wrote on Mar 6th, 2015 at 7:14am:
You are having trouble with this.

Take a deep breath, concentrate.

The Bible is, undoubtedly, a collection of books which contain a great deal that is historically accurate; indeed, it is a primary source or at least a good secondary source for much historical study.

That is true regardless of whether, as you believe, it is the revealed word of God or, as I believe, it isn't.

So, to say that 'if there is no God, the whole Bible is fictional' makes no sense at all.

Really, Seawolf, I am not trying to make some smart arse Atheist point here, this is a matter of language.

Back to the earlier discussion, science neither proves God's existence, nor disproves it, nor attempts to do either.

It can't, and no reputable scientist would even try, other than as a parlour game.

But, things like plate tectonics are no more in dispute than things like the tide, or clouds.

You can see them, albeit in the case of plate tectonics it is so slow that you need sensitive measuring kit.

You are right; an omnipotent God could of course generate the world as it is now in seven days.

However, if He did so, He made a very good stab at putting in this new world some consistent, coherent and compelling (to our eyes) evidence for things such as evolution and the movement over aeons of the continents.

Not saying He couldn't - that sort of is what 'omnipotent' means - just saying that the evidence we have, on the physical laws we have/have been given, is that things don't necessarily tally with a literal reading of the Bible in every detail.

Why He would wish to put this quandary down for us - i.e. a set of beliefs that He requires, that are inconsistent with the evidence of our own eyes - I don't know, but then there is this word 'ineffable' too, isn't there?

I am not the one who is having problems.  You see, you have issues with the doctrine of the Old Testament.  Actually, you have issues with God as a whole.  One thing I have realized is that we try to define God in a way WE understand despite not realizing he is beyond our understanding.  We try to simplify him so that we can grasp God.  I am honest in that I can not entirely grasp God completely.  Afterall, he created us so why would any of us think we can fully grasp the Creator of life?

  I see evidence with my eyes and what i have experienced personally.  Many like yourself attempt to simpllfy God by your own human understanding and if evolving out of nothing makes sense to you, more then a Creator, you will accept it even if it's not truly logical.  You don't grasp that I was on the other side regarding my prior life.  Heck, Paul killed Christians.  It was his mission to seek out Christians and to stone them and yet something transformed him entirely that he became one of the primary authors in the New Testament.  How do you go from perscuting Christians to becoming one of the most evangelizing Apostles in the history of the New Testament.  He had a transformation.

  To you the Bible is foolishness.  1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

I have no reason to doubt that the Bible is clear as to how life came into existence.  God commandmed it and it happened.  Some may think it evolved but I see to many conflicts in this.  Was Adam an ape?  Did th eBible literally mean seven days in accordance to the Hebrew language?  Can you explain the garden of Eden in an evolutionary process?  I can cite multiple issues I have with evolution as the world teaches.  I do believe we ADAPT to our environment but I do not believe we evolved in a process as the world teaches.  I see this between Christians as a side issue from something far more important then how God started life.  There was a purpose in God's plan for mankind and I think too many side issues thwart our priorities that should be more aligned with God's prioities.
« Last Edit: Mar 6th, 2015 at 8:56am by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: "Saudi cleric rejects that Earth revolves around the Sun"
Reply #147 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 2:24pm
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Seawolf wrote on Mar 5th, 2015 at 8:24pm:
So I must conform?  .


What does accepting reality have to do with conforming ? . .. 

When did you "conform" to the reality of a Sun centered solar system?  Did you "conform" to the effectiveness of vaccinations against diseases .?  Why did the discovery of x-rays require you to "conform"?

How does a person as completely delusional as you claim to be function in a modern world?



  
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Re: "Saudi cleric rejects that Earth revolves around the Sun"
Reply #148 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 4:24pm
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Fıddler wrote on Mar 6th, 2015 at 2:24pm:
What does accepting reality have to do with conforming ? . .. 

When did you "conform" to the reality of a Sun centered solar system?  Did you "conform" to the effectiveness of vaccinations against diseases .?  Why did the discovery of x-rays require you to "conform"?

How does a person as completely delusional as you claim to be function in a modern world?



   

Was I talking to you?  You are too busy looking for a fight, not going to entertain you Fid.  Look elsewhere or just take another hiatus from the forum.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: "Saudi cleric rejects that Earth revolves around the Sun"
Reply #149 - Mar 6th, 2015 at 4:34pm
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Seawolf wrote on Mar 6th, 2015 at 4:24pm:
Was I talking to you? 


Do you realize that this is an open forum?


Seawolf wrote on Mar 6th, 2015 at 4:24pm:
You are too busy looking for a fight, .



No.. I'm asking you hard questions to which you have no reasoned answer.


  
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