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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Scientists: Orbital Variations Main Cause of Climate Change (Read 5,834 times)
EF
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Re: Scientists: Orbital Variations Main Cause of Climate Change
Reply #20 - Mar 12th, 2015 at 1:50pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Mar 12th, 2015 at 1:40pm:
I suppose we had nothing to do with creating the Dust Bowl in the 30s, too. And all that desertification that turned much of the middle east and north africa from lush forest to bare sand? No, deforestation couldn't possibly have done that. Man has no power to change the climate, no way no how. Australia's deserts? Easter Island? The frickin' Gobi Desert that keeps walking all over China after the denude their forests and plowed everything nice and deep?

There's no way mere humans could have done that.


And this one:

Formerly one of the four largest lakes in the world with an area of 68,000 km2 (26,300 sq mi), the Aral Sea has been steadily shrinking since the 1960s after the rivers that fed it were diverted by Soviet irrigation projects. By 2007, it had declined to 10% of its original size, splitting into four lakes the North Aral Sea, the eastern and western basins of the once far larger South Aral Sea, and one smaller lake between the North and South Aral Seas.[5] By 2009, the southeastern lake had disappeared and the southwestern lake had retreated to a thin strip at the extreme west of the former southern sea; in subsequent years, occasional water flows have led to the southeastern lake sometimes being replenished to a small degree.[6] Satellite images taken by NASA in August 2014 have revealed that for the first time in modern history the eastern basin of the Aral Sea had completely dried up.[7] The eastern basin is now called the Aralkum desert.

And the once mighty Colorado River which peters out in a mud hole several miles from the ocean now. Man didn't do that, either. couldn't have. He's too insignificant.
  

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Demos
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Re: Scientists: Orbital Variations Main Cause of Climate Change
Reply #21 - Mar 12th, 2015 at 2:21pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Mar 12th, 2015 at 1:40pm:
And all that desertification that turned much of the middle east and north africa from lush forest to bare sand?

Actually, we probably didn't have anything to do with that as far as the Sahara is concerned (Source).
  
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BangOn
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Re: Scientists: Orbital Variations Main Cause of Climate Change
Reply #22 - Mar 12th, 2015 at 2:23pm
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Demos wrote on Mar 12th, 2015 at 2:21pm:
Actually, we probably didn't have anything to do with that as far as the Sahara is concerned (Source).


It looks like we have the power to halt the advance of the Sahara however.
  
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Enoch8
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Re: Scientists: Orbital Variations Main Cause of Climate Change
Reply #23 - Mar 12th, 2015 at 2:24pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Mar 12th, 2015 at 1:40pm:
I suppose we had nothing to do with creating the Dust Bowl in the 30s, too. And all that desertification that turned much of the middle east and north africa from lush forest to bare sand? No, deforestation couldn't possibly have done that. Man has no power to change the climate, no way no how. Australia's deserts? Easter Island? The frickin' Gobi Desert that keeps walking all over China after the denude their forests and plowed everything nice and deep?

There's no way mere humans could have done that.


These are good points.
We should agree, that better management is needed.

Sadly, the honest conversation loses ground to endless debates on carbon emmissions.
Plantlife requires carbon dioxide to breath. That exchange is symbiotic. That is a well known fact in biology.
So, it should be agreed, by sane and rational people, that cutting down rain forests, defoliation practices, over farming without letting the ground rest every so often, better water use, etc. need honest and rational discussion.

Companies like Monsanto, would be a good place to start the boycotts.
Boycotts are far more effective, as a powerful tool in the 'Free Markets', than any form of government regulation will ever be.
Boycott Cheveron Oil, if you think it is killing the earth.
Boycott Monsanto if you think it is polluting the ground water.
Boycott the automotive industry, and don't buy a gas hog, if you like.

We are free to vote with our feet.

It really does not help honest discussion, to get off on the tangent of carbon emmissions, to the point of hysteria, for the purpose of some dubious political campaign.
To say carbon dioxide is a toxic gas, is pure insanity and is pitiful junk science. Crap like that hurts the very cause of improving the environment and ecology.

You can do far more, by refusing to buy from companies who pollute. You have that power. Your vote with your feet is far more powerful than any government regulation will ever be, because do you not see? Government is owned and controlled by the very monopolists, who own the very corporations that are destroying your environment and your quality of life.

Boycott the bastards!
If you think politics is the solution..... you are fighting windmills and ghosts. Everyone loses.
Boycott the bastards.
Fire 'Em All.

Save a tree. Breath. They love you for it. They will exhale Oxygen for you, in return for the CO2 you exhale.
« Last Edit: Mar 12th, 2015 at 2:41pm by Enoch8 »  

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Re: Scientists: Orbital Variations Main Cause of Climate Change
Reply #24 - Mar 12th, 2015 at 2:33pm
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Quote:
It looks like we have the power to halt the advance of the Sahara however.

I know there have been some attempts to halt/reverse the advance of the Sahara, but it's been a while since I read anything on those efforts. Few thousand more years (95k I guess) and we may not have to make those efforts anymore.
  
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Enoch8
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Re: Scientists: Orbital Variations Main Cause of Climate Change
Reply #25 - Mar 12th, 2015 at 3:00pm
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Demos wrote on Mar 12th, 2015 at 2:21pm:
Actually, we probably didn't have anything to do with that as far as the Sahara is concerned (Source).


I would add this:

The Arizona and Mexico Sonoran Desert are a necessary balance in the way the earth cycles herself.
The northern high desert of Arizona, conversely is the result of the combined effects of a massive stike of several meteors, volcanic eruption and a massive shift in the earths crust... several hundreds of years ago.

The dust bowl, was also partly due, to a natural earth cycle of a down draft, off the Rockies. Any good Texan or Oklahoman can tell you what that is called.
That said, there is no denying, agriculture could be a contributing factor.... but the top soil was sand, before men even knew the place existed.

Clayton New Mexico also had the topsoil blown away and there was not really any agriculture at all, to speak of. It is part of the dust bowl, and was affected just the same. It was a natural earth event, more than anything. Most of the land of the dust bowl, where little or no farming was present, were some of the acreages worst effected.

Yes, topsiol blew away. If you know those deserts, then you also know, the few weeds that grow in the deserts naturally, where there is no farming, nor has there ever been, are among the worst effected by dust storms.

There are other examples of land that is far more heavily farmed, that were not affected at all. In fact, those areas especially the least effected around Dalhart, especially where the cattle are, is some of the most fertile soil in the country.

All that said.... it is also true, that a farm freshly tilled before crops can set root or watered.... is especially suceptible to high winds.
The South West is notorious for dust storms blowing off dry tilled fields that have not yet been well enough fertilized by cattle. Yet those areas are no longer bare desert. They are fertile.

Yep Man did that. Now the Phoenix, Mesa, Chandler, Scottsdale areas, no longer have the massive dust storms they used to, before it was settled and farmed.

The horror!
« Last Edit: Mar 12th, 2015 at 3:25pm by Enoch8 »  

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Re: Scientists: Orbital Variations Main Cause of Climate Change
Reply #26 - Mar 12th, 2015 at 3:54pm
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Quote:
It looks like we have the power to halt the advance of the Sahara however.

What! Interfere with nature!! Grin Grin Grin Grin
« Last Edit: Mar 12th, 2015 at 4:00pm by Redbeard »  

Greg!
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Re: Scientists: Orbital Variations Main Cause of Climate Change
Reply #27 - Mar 12th, 2015 at 4:50pm
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Demos wrote on Mar 12th, 2015 at 2:21pm:
Actually, we probably didn't have anything to do with that as far as the Sahara is concerned (Source).


Interesting about the Sahara.  I googled around a bit, and there is some agreement out there that the Sahara's climate is cyclical.  I also read that vegetation cover creates a feedback loop that accelerates desertification -- the less vegetation, the less land-evaporation, and the weaker the monsoons.  And if there's one thing humans have been good at since 10k years ago, its vegetation-removal.

Anyway, the other examples are all strong.  Humans have made outsized impacts on climate effects all around the world.  And I do love to bring up the great oxygenation catastrophe of a billion years ago (or so), in which cyano-bacteria excreted oxygen long enough to finally poison themselves to extinction.  Yay for us, but not a good outcome for the bacteria.

If bacteria can poison the globe enough to kill themselves off, so can we.
  

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Re: Scientists: Orbital Variations Main Cause of Climate Change
Reply #28 - Mar 12th, 2015 at 5:04pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Mar 12th, 2015 at 4:50pm:
Interesting about the Sahara. I googled around a bit, and there is some agreement out there that the Sahara's climate is cyclical. I also read that vegetation cover creates a feedback loop that accelerates desertification -- the less vegetation, the less land-evaporation, and the weaker the monsoons. And if there's one thing humans have been good at since 10k years ago, its vegetation-removal.

Anyway, the other examples are all strong. Humans have made outsized impacts on climate effects all around the world. And I do love to bring up the great oxygenation catastrophe of a billion years ago (or so), in which cyano-bacteria excreted oxygen long enough to finally poison themselves to extinction. Yay for us, but not a good outcome for the bacteria.

If bacteria can poison the globe enough to kill themselves off, so can we.



PROVE IT


So the earth was without bacteria? PROVE that!

You have any facts or links about anything you proclaim?

Your not Hillary we dont believe you! Grin
  

I HILLARY I remember landing under sniper fire." There was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at the airport, "but instead we just ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles to get to our base.

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Re: Scientists: Orbital Variations Main Cause of Climate Change
Reply #29 - Mar 12th, 2015 at 5:11pm
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POPEYE the SAILOR MAN wrote on Mar 12th, 2015 at 5:04pm:
PROVE IT


So the earth was without bacteria? PROVE that!

You have any facts or links about anything you proclaim?

Your not Hillary we dont believe you! Grin




  
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