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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Marist Poll Shows A majority believes in moral conscience exemptions from the law.
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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Marist Poll Shows A majority believes in moral conscience exemptions from the law. (Read 2,281 times)
Seawolf
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Marist Poll Shows A majority believes in moral conscience exemptions from the law.
Apr 6th, 2015 at 4:36pm
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Hmm. so pages and pages of threads by our leftist friends about their lack of tolerance of our religious liberties.  In fact, they are even trying to make this as if the majority are opposed to the actions by businesses who refuse to participate in activities they find morally objective.  Of course, that really is not the case.  An image painted by the media to look as if the American people are outraged is turning out to be just that, a painted image.  You libs are in the miniority on this whole issue.  Here is the story.



http://maristpoll.marist.edu/313-tolerance-for-religious-rights/
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Thor3
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Re: Marist Poll Shows A majority believes in moral conscience exemptions from the law.
Reply #1 - Apr 6th, 2015 at 5:43pm
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Seawolf wrote on Apr 6th, 2015 at 4:36pm:
Hmm. so pages and pages of threads by our leftist friends about their lack of tolerance of our religious liberties.  In fact, they are even trying to make this as if the majority are opposed to the actions by businesses who refuse to participate in activities they find morally objective.  Of course, that really is not the case.  An image painted by the media to look as if the American people are outraged is turning out to be just that, a painted image.  You libs are in the miniority on this whole issue.  Here is the story.

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Tolerance-for-Religious-...

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/313-tolerance-for-religious-rights/


A clear majority of people favor tighter restrictions on firearms. Argumentum ad Popularum is a logical fallacy.

You fail.
  
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Re: Marist Poll Shows A majority believes in moral conscience exemptions from the law.
Reply #2 - Apr 6th, 2015 at 5:48pm
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A clear majority of people favor tighter restrictions on firearms. Argumentum ad Popularum is a logical fallacy.

You fail.


This has nothing to do with "Argumentum ad Popularum."

Seawolf is not asserting anything other than that most Americans believe in "moral conscience exemptions from the law."  The numbers support this.

Firearm control also has nothing to do with Argumentum ad Popularum.

An example of Argumentum ad Popularum would be if Seawolf asserted that because most people throughout history believed the sun went around the earth, than the sun actually does move around the earth.
  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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notime
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Re: Marist Poll Shows A majority believes in moral conscience exemptions from the law.
Reply #3 - Apr 6th, 2015 at 6:53pm
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Seawolf wrote on Apr 6th, 2015 at 4:36pm:
Hmm. so pages and pages of threads by our leftist friends about their lack of tolerance of our religious liberties.  In fact, they are even trying to make this as if the majority are opposed to the actions by businesses who refuse to participate in activities they find morally objective.  Of course, that really is not the case.  An image painted by the media to look as if the American people are outraged is turning out to be just that, a painted image.  You libs are in the miniority on this whole issue.  Here is the story.

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Tolerance-for-Religious-...

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/313-tolerance-for-religious-rights/


I wonder what the majority would say if the faith-based exemptions from the laws were to lead to Shariah law being practiced here in some cases.

I have no problem being in the minority and if these issues are not settled to my liking now I know that they will be in the long run. 
  
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Re: Marist Poll Shows A majority believes in moral conscience exemptions from the law.
Reply #4 - Apr 6th, 2015 at 8:41pm
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notime wrote on Apr 6th, 2015 at 6:53pm:
if these issues are not settled to my liking now I know that they will be in the long run. 


That seems likely, but it is hardly guaranteed.

Take the former Soviet Union...obviously that was a state that was supposed to be at the front of all leftist politics, but since its collapse many of its former inhabitants have gone the other direction.  You are not going to find much support for gay marriage in present-day Russia, for instance.

My point is, though it may appear things are certain to go one way, history has a way of throwing curve balls at us.
« Last Edit: Apr 6th, 2015 at 8:49pm by Frank1 »  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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BangOn
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Re: Marist Poll Shows A majority believes in moral conscience exemptions from the law.
Reply #5 - Apr 7th, 2015 at 8:04am
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notime wrote on Apr 6th, 2015 at 6:53pm:
I wonder what the majority would say if the faith-based exemptions from the laws were to lead to Shariah law being practiced here in some cases.


It's easy to favor moral exemptions when the majority of the population happens to have the same moral rule book as you.
  
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Re: Marist Poll Shows A majority believes in moral conscience exemptions from the law.
Reply #6 - Apr 7th, 2015 at 8:23am
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It's easy to favor moral exemptions when the majority of the population happens to have the same moral rule book as you.



True, but there are difficulties with majority-opinion based lawmaking.

It depends upon whether you believe that there is a 'right' and 'wrong' outside of current opinion on the matter at hand.

I know from previous conversations here on LNF and elsewhere that some people do indeed believe that 'right' and 'wrong' are constructs of the time, and indeed of the culture to which they belong.

This is seen in all sectors of opinion, left, right and libertarian - commonly amongst leftist cultural relativists who seem to assert that such things as Sharia takes on male/female roles are fine, because they are cultural norms within a population.

Some Libertarians argue that in transactions, 'right' is simply what is agreed by both parties. (Yes, I know this is a gross simplification).

I would argue that, if you treat people badly other than when they are a direct physical or possibly economic threat to you or others, you rapidly lose the ability to stand on the moral high ground.

It would be very interesting to see the exact question set that produced these numbers.
  

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Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Marist Poll Shows A majority believes in moral conscience exemptions from the law.
Reply #7 - Apr 7th, 2015 at 10:10am
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notime wrote on Apr 6th, 2015 at 6:53pm:
I wonder what the majority would say if the faith-based exemptions from the laws were to lead to Shariah law being practiced here in some cases.

I have no problem being in the minority and if these issues are not settled to my liking now I know that they will be in the long run. 

Note after Shiria the word law, not faith.  If there is an attempt to impose a law that is directly in contrast to our Constitution it is void.  Thus Shiria law will never be allowed to be the law of the land.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Marist Poll Shows A majority believes in moral conscience exemptions from the law.
Reply #8 - Apr 7th, 2015 at 11:08am
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Seawolf wrote on Apr 7th, 2015 at 10:10am:
Note after Shiria the word law, not faith.  If there is an attempt to impose a law that is directly in contrast to our Constitution it is void.


  Thus Shiria law will never be allowed to be the law of the land.


Nor will the Levitical law you are so desperate to see entrenched.



  
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Re: Marist Poll Shows A majority believes in moral conscience exemptions from the law.
Reply #9 - Apr 7th, 2015 at 12:11pm
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Limey wrote on Apr 7th, 2015 at 8:23am:
True, but there are difficulties with majority-opinion based lawmaking.

It depends upon whether you believe that there is a 'right' and 'wrong' outside of current opinion on the matter at hand.

I know from previous conversations here on LNF and elsewhere that some people do indeed believe that 'right' and 'wrong' are constructs of the time, and indeed of the culture to which they belong.

This is seen in all sectors of opinion, left, right and libertarian - commonly amongst leftist cultural relativists who seem to assert that such things as Sharia takes on male/female roles are fine, because they are cultural norms within a population.

Some Libertarians argue that in transactions, 'right' is simply what is agreed by both parties. (Yes, I know this is a gross simplification).

I would argue that, if you treat people badly other than when they are a direct physical or possibly economic threat to you or others, you rapidly lose the ability to stand on the moral high ground.

It would be very interesting to see the exact question set that produced these numbers.


Libertarians have an objective view of right and wrong. It is summed up in this phrase: anything that's peaceful.

So I don't believe they belong in that list of groups who see right and wrong in relative terms.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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