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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A thought on the metaphysics of sexuality. (Read 3,481 times)
wildhorses
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Re: A thought on the metaphysics of sexuality.
Reply #20 - Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:07pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 3:44pm:
I'm glad you enjoyed it. It was, in part, tongue in cheek, though I imagine the subtlety escaped you.

You said yourself that men are more tolerant of women wearing whatever it is they want to wear. They are less tolerant of men wearing what they want to wear.

Is this not a form of allowance? Particularly when looked at relative to the treatment a man would receive if he walked around Walmart in a short skirt and tank top?

There is no comparison to how men would treat a woman who walked around in a suit.

You can call it "guts", but it would take more than guts for a man to break such social taboos, as the taboos are much stronger.

This seems like men allowing certain behaviors while not allowing other behaviors.

Women are more tolerant overall to both situations (people dressing against their sex's traditional garb), so what they are "allowing" isn't as important in society. It's not what is dictating behavior. It is men.

I don't even necessarily believe what I wrote above, but you keep making statements as if you have the monopoly on truth. "Woman have more guts" when it comes to dressing themselves! That's "the truth!"

Well, maybe there are other interpretations. Why are you right? Because you say so? I mean, what you're saying is shallow, simplistic, and pretty easy to poke holes in.

But because you say it's "the truth" means it's "the truth"?

1. There are still hunting parties. How out of touch are you?

2. There are plenty of things that people no longer "have to worry about" but still haunt our DNA. Our behaviors might change in modern times, but we still have the relics of our more tribal and violent past within our blood.

And that's what the culture wore, though this:

http://www.crystalinks.com/prehistoric.clothing1.jpg

Is different from this:

http://www.hprlondon.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/pretty-dress-company-full17....

And you're not being honest to suggest otherwise.


I never once said that men are more tolerant of what women wear. 

Men do not "allow" women to wear pants....lol...women do it because they want to.  And initially, they were not well received.  Not by men or by women.  Women are more tolerant of what people wear?  I don't think they are.  If anything they may be less tolerant.

You made some reference to how a man would be treated if walking in Walmart in a dress.  Well, have you seen "People of Walmart"....?  Go to youtube to see it.  Many men walk around in dresses and skirts unbothered by anyone.  I don't know why all men can't do this.  It is just an effing dress, fgs.  Men use to wear the equivalent of dresses.  Mighty kings and warriors wore dresses.  Men can wear dresses if they want.  Men won't tolerate other men wearing dresses?  They have in the past, why not now? 

I see you are now starting in with some personal attacks.  Well attack if you must.  It won't create a distraction for me as intended.  That kind of chit just bounces right off me. 
  
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Re: A thought on the metaphysics of sexuality.
Reply #21 - Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:13pm
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Rabbit Reborn:  Just one last point.  In reference to your graphics comparing male dresses to female dresses.  Where did I imply that males would wear female styled dresses?  They of course would wear dresses styled for males (as they always have in the past).  Just like women wear pants styled for women.
  
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Re: A thought on the metaphysics of sexuality.
Reply #22 - Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:14pm
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wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:07pm:
I never once said that men are more tolerant of what women wear. 

Men do not "allow" women to wear pants....lol...women do it because they want to.

Can both be true?

Because where I live, if a man walks around in a skirt and high heels, he's gonna get made fun of whether he wants to wear that stuff or not. It's going to be relentless. And they won't get jobs.

Women wearing pants? No problem. They'll get jobs, they'll get asked out on dates, and there will be no harassment.

Seems there is more at play than just whether women have "guts" or not.

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:07pm:
And initially, they were not well received.  Not by men or by women.

Which social taboo do you think is stronger, and has been stronger for hundreds of years:

Grown men wearing skirts
Or
Women wearing pants

If you answer honestly, you'll see that your "truth" about "guts" that women have more than men might seem a little more shallow to you.

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:07pm:
You made some reference to how a man would be treated if walking in Walmart in a dress.  Well, have you seen "People of Walmart"....?  Go to youtube to see it.  Many men walk around in dresses and skirts unbothered by anyone.  I don't know why all men can't do this.

If you don't know why all men "can't do this", then I don't think we need to continue the conversation.

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:07pm:
It is just an effing dress, fgs.  Men use to wear the equivalent of dresses.  Mighty kings and warriors wore dresses.  Men can wear dresses if they want.  Men won't tolerate other men wearing dresses?  They have in the past, why not now? 

Because cultures change?

This is some strange quasi-social justice warrior mentality.

How do you not understand how cultural norms affect people's behavior?

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:07pm:
They have in the past, why not now? 

People tolerated all sorts of behaviors in the past that are no longer acceptable. Is this surprising to you?

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:07pm:
I see you are now starting in with some personal attacks.  Well attack if you must.

In what way did I offend you? When I expressed surprise that you thought there weren't anymore hunting parties?

That is surprising. It's not like it's a secret that people hunt throughout the world, often in groups.

But I imagine you're the type to look for things for which to be offended.

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:07pm:
It won't create a distraction for me as intended. That kind of chit just bounces right off me.

Obviously! Lulz!
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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wildhorses
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Re: A thought on the metaphysics of sexuality.
Reply #23 - Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:25pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:14pm:
Can both be true?

Because where I live, if a man walks around in a skirt and high heels, he's gonna get made fun of whether he wants to wear that stuff or not. It's going to be relentless. And they won't get jobs.

Women wearing pants? No problem. They'll get jobs, they'll get asked out on dates, and there will be no harassment.

Seems there is more at play than just whether women have "guts" or not.

Which social taboo do you think is stronger, and has been stronger for hundreds of years:

Grown men wearing skirts
Or
Women wearing pants

If you answer honestly, you'll see that your "truth" about "guts" that women have more than men might seem a little more shallow to you.

If you don't know why all men "can't do this", then I don't think we need to continue the conversation.

Because cultures change?

This is some strange quasi-social justice warrior mentality.

How do you not understand how cultural norms affect people's behavior?

People tolerated all sorts of behaviors in the past that are no longer acceptable. Is this surprising to you?

In what way did I offend you? When I expressed surprise that you thought there weren't anymore hunting parties?

That is surprising. It's not like it's a secret that people hunt throughout the world, often in groups.

But I imagine you're the type to look for things for which to be offended.

Obviously! Lulz!


Why would a man wearing a dress or skirt have to include high heels?  There was a time when women wearing a pair of pants was just as taboo.  You are only looking to modern times....very recent modern times as the matter of fact.  It has really only been about 30 years that women could wear pants..say...to a job interview.  Maybe 40 depending on the job type.  You must be awfully young not to know this. 

Yes cultures change, so why can't men resume wearing dresses again?  They don't need to wear women's dresses or women's heels....I don't know where you got that from.  I am not sure you are open minded enough to imagine the possibility of men going back to dresses.  You are too structured in your thinking and seem to think men still control everything.  BREAK OUT!
  
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wildhorses
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Re: A thought on the metaphysics of sexuality.
Reply #24 - Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:30pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:14pm:
Can both be true?



I don't get it.

I wrote the following:

I never once said that men are more tolerant of what women wear.

Men do not "allow" women to wear pants....lol...women do it because they want to.


Then you wrote:

Can both be true?

?????

You are not having a good day, Rabbit.   Both statements run along the same path.  Can both be true?  LOL...YES THEY CAN AND ARE.

  
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Re: A thought on the metaphysics of sexuality.
Reply #25 - Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:36pm
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wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:25pm:
Why would a man wearing a dress or skirt have to include high heels?  There was a time when women wearing a pair of pants was just as taboo.  You are only looking to modern times....very recent modern times as the matter of fact.  It has really only been about 30 years that women could wear pants..say...to a job interview.  Maybe 40 depending on the job type.

"Just as taboo".

I don't think so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_wearing_trousers_in_the_Western_world_after_1...

Women were wearing trousers in the workplace throughout the 20th century.

You'd be hardpressed to find an equivalent to men wearing dresses in the workplace.

Which tells me, to absolutely nobody's surprise except yours, that the cultural taboo of wearing pants for women is (and has been) nowhere near the same as men wearing a skirt in a very long time.

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:25pm:
You must be awfully young not to know this. 

Know what? That some professions still did not want to hire women wearing pants in the 1960s?

Sure. But that doesn't mean it was the same level of taboo as men wearing skirts.

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:25pm:
Yes cultures change, so why can't men resume wearing dresses again?

I don't know.

But they can't. And it has nothing to do with a lack of "guts".

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:25pm:
They don't need to wear women's dresses or women's heels....I don't know where you got that from.

Because a "dress" is, in our part of the world, considered a woman's piece of clothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dress

What you are talking about is a robe or something, and using these things interchangeable, in some strange SJW ritual.

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:25pm:
I am not sure you are open minded enough to imagine the possibility of men going back to dresses.

Wow. Nor do I care if you think I'm open minded enough for something so patently absurd.

Can I envision it? Sure. Why would I bother doing so? Just for the sake of being "open minded" and embracing anything anybody wants to do, like a good Social Justice Warrior?

I also don't want women getting mustache implants. Does that make me closed-minded?

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:25pm:
You are too structured in your thinking and seem to think men still control everything. BREAK OUT!

LOL.

Yes! What about constant nudity? Why are you so closed-minded?

People should be nude all the time. They used to be nude all the time. Why not now? Don't be closed-minded about it. People are born nude!

And we can wear special neon make-up on our genitals, right? Does this sound fun? Why be closed-minded?

Guess you don't have the guts that I do to "BREAKOUT!"
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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Re: A thought on the metaphysics of sexuality.
Reply #26 - Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:39pm
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wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:30pm:
I don't get it.


No doubt.

But what I was saying was can both your statement "women do it (wear pants) because they want to" also be true with my statement, that "men are more tolerant of what women wear" then they are of what other men wear.

The way you wrote your sentences made it seem as though my statement couldn't be true because "women do it because they want to".

It wasn't a counter. It's not a counter. Women can wear pants "because they want to" even if all of my previous statements are true...

This is exhausting.
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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wildhorses
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Re: A thought on the metaphysics of sexuality.
Reply #27 - Apr 24th, 2015 at 5:09pm
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Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:36pm:
"Just as taboo".

I don't think so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_wearing_trousers_in_the_Western_world_after_1...

Women were wearing trousers in the workplace throughout the 20th century.

You'd be hardpressed to find an equivalent to men wearing dresses in the workplace.

Which tells me, to absolutely nobody's surprise except yours, that the cultural taboo of wearing pants for women is (and has been) nowhere near the same as men wearing a skirt in a very long time.

Know what? That some professions still did not want to hire women wearing pants in the 1960s?

Sure. But that doesn't mean it was the same level of taboo as men wearing skirts.

I don't know.

But they can't. And it has nothing to do with a lack of "guts".

Because a "dress" is, in our part of the world, considered a woman's piece of clothing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dress

What you are talking about is a robe or something, and using these things interchangeable, in some strange SJW ritual.

Wow. Nor do I care if you think I'm open minded enough for something so patently absurd.

Can I envision it? Sure. Why would I bother doing so? Just for the sake of being "open minded" and embracing anything anybody wants to do, like a good Social Justice Warrior?

I also don't want women getting mustache implants. Does that make me closed-minded?

LOL.

Yes! What about constant nudity? Why are you so closed-minded?

People should be nude all the time. They used to be nude all the time. Why not now? Don't be closed-minded about it. People are born nude!

And we can wear special neon make-up on our genitals, right? Does this sound fun? Why be closed-minded?

Guess you don't have the guts that I do to "BREAKOUT!"


LOL...calm down. Looks like I hit a nerve.

Women in the 20th century wearing pants...lol. I was talking about times way before that. You are stuck in modern times (probably because you are very young) and this is why you are so entrenched in modern day taboos. But if you take a look at history (real history, not just the last century...lol) then you would have a wider frame of reference.

And btw, yes I know women who wore pants in the 60's were not very well received....I was there. I know all about that. That is exactly one of my points.

You also really need to expand your view of what a dress is.  A kilt is a dress worn by men in Scotland.  Actually a skirt is what it really is.  And comparing robe-type clothing for men is acceptable for the purpose of this discussion because of course men would not wear dresses or skirts styled for women.  Rather they would wear something styled for men which could very well be a robe type dress.  In fact there are robe-type dresses for women already.  They are open in front and wrap around at the waist.  So robes worn by men in the past are in fact the equivalent of a dress.  Jesus wore a dress...a long dress.  He certainly did not wear pants because his clothing was open at the bottom...it was a form of a dress.  Monks wear dresses.
« Last Edit: Apr 24th, 2015 at 5:15pm by wildhorses »  
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Re: A thought on the metaphysics of sexuality.
Reply #28 - Apr 24th, 2015 at 5:23pm
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wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 3:17pm:
Jesus wore a dress.

Roll Eyes

It wasn't a dress, silly. It was a robe.
  


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Re: A thought on the metaphysics of sexuality.
Reply #29 - Apr 24th, 2015 at 5:37pm
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wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 5:09pm:
Women in the 20th century wearing pants...lol. I was talking about times way before that.


Were you?

Because let's see, from your previous post:

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 4:25pm:
You are only looking to modern times....very recent modern times as the matter of fact. It has really only been about 30 years that women could wear pants..say...to a job interview. Maybe 40 depending on the job type. You must be awfully young not to know this.

Yup. Looks like you were also talking about the 20th century.

If you can't keep up with what you're writing, how can you keep up with what I'm writing?

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 5:09pm:
You are stuck in modern times (probably because you are very young) and this is why you are so entrenched in modern day taboos. But if you take a look at history (real history, not just the last century...lol) then you would have a wider frame of reference.

And btw, yes I know women who wore pants in the 60's were not very well received....I was there. I know all about that. That is exactly one of my points.

But I thought you said you weren't talking about the 20th century?

??

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 5:09pm:
You also really need to expand your view of what a dress is. A kilt is a dress worn by men in Scotland.

And so does Wikipedia and Merriam-Webster and everybody else. Because when defining the individual garment called a "dress", everybody says "as for a woman or a girl".

Except wildhorses, who has the monopoly on truth.

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 5:09pm:
And comparing robe-type clothing for men is acceptable for the purpose of this discussion because of course men would not wear dresses or skirts styled for women.

You are using the word "skirt" and "dress", which are specifically for women, so they are all styled for women. If they were styled for men, they would not be dresses. They would be robes, which some men do wear in our modern society.

They are different garments, no matter how much you say otherwise.

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 5:09pm:
Rather they would wear something styled for men which could very well be a robe type dress.

It would just be a robe. It would not be a "robe type dress", which isn't an actual thing.

wildhorses wrote on Apr 24th, 2015 at 5:09pm:
Jesus wore a dress...a long dress. He certainly did not wear pants because his clothing was open at the bottom...it was a form of a dress. Monks wear dresses.

If you must make them equivalent (robes and dresses), then men do wear "dresses", all the time. Bath robes, religious robes, graduation garments.

All because men have the "guts" to do so! Awesome! I have "guts" because I've worn a "dress" before! Aren't I amazing?
  

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 11th, 2018 at 3:40pm:
You are awfully concerned about who gets to live.  Why is it so important to you?
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