Liberty News Forum
Political News Forum - Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. Not for wimps!
Political Opinion Page - Recent Posts - LNF Forums LNF in the Age of Empowerment! Algorithm free!
Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Entertainment - Sports Forum
Military - A1 News Page - Computers Tech - Financial News - Bunker - Rasmussen Presidential Tracking Poll
The House - Off the Wall News - Page 2 - Rasmussen Reports Polls - Chat Room
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › black Americans killed by cops 2x more likely to be unarmed than whites
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) black Americans killed by cops 2x more likely to be unarmed than whites (Read 7,011 times)
Limey.
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 21,261
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
black Americans killed by cops 2x more likely to be unarmed than whites
Jun 3rd, 2015 at 2:01pm
Print Post  
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/01/black-americans-killed-by-police-...

I've seen your hot tempered threads on this - I wonder if this thoughtful (although yes, biased to a certain view) piece has seen much attention over there?

Apparantly the Guardian website is one of the larger ones in hit numbers world wide.

  

I have a new t shirt.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Redbeard
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

Obama- he lies!!

Posts: 15,223
Location: jacksonville florida
Joined: Feb 24th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: black Americans killed by cops 2x more likely to be unarmed than whites
Reply #1 - Jun 3rd, 2015 at 2:30pm
Print Post  
Limey. wrote on Jun 3rd, 2015 at 2:01pm:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/01/black-americans-killed-by-police-...

I've seen your hot tempered threads on this - I wonder if this thoughtful (although yes, biased to a certain view) piece has seen much attention over there?

Apparantly the Guardian website is one of the larger ones in hit numbers world wide.


I skimmed trough some of the killings in the interactive model and by far most of them were a case of the suspect attacking the police. Some of the ones I opened really were not nice guys!
  

Greg!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey.
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 21,261
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: black Americans killed by cops 2x more likely to be unarmed than whites
Reply #2 - Jun 3rd, 2015 at 2:40pm
Print Post  
Redbeard wrote on Jun 3rd, 2015 at 2:30pm:
I skimmed trough some of the killings in the interactive model and by far most of them were a case of the suspect attacking the police. Some of the ones I opened really were not nice guys!



Doubtless.

But - from my perspective in a country where the cops are generally unarmed - the impression is of a police force that is, erm, a little trigger-happy.

It's such a profound thing to take a life, you'd like to think it was only done in extremis. Teenaged kid accused of shoplifting? Shot for not stopping?

Jesus, that's fukced up.

Jasmine, please don't bother, we know what you pretend to think.
  

I have a new t shirt.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Redbeard
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

Obama- he lies!!

Posts: 15,223
Location: jacksonville florida
Joined: Feb 24th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: black Americans killed by cops 2x more likely to be unarmed than whites
Reply #3 - Jun 3rd, 2015 at 3:02pm
Print Post  
Limey. wrote on Jun 3rd, 2015 at 2:40pm:
Doubtless.

But - from my perspective in a country where the cops are generally unarmed - the impression is of a police force that is, erm, a little trigger-happy.

It's such a profound thing to take a life, you'd like to think it was only done in extremis. Teenaged kid accused of shoplifting? Shot for not stopping?

Jesus, that's fukced up.

Jasmine, please don't bother, we know what you pretend to think.

This is not England! In Florida alone there are 1.4 million CCW's but that is only a snapshot of gun ownership in this state! Anyone that is not a convicted felon can carry a weapon in their vehicle without a CCW. All the CCW does is allows you to carry a weapon concealed! That is just Florida!
Of the 50 murders in Baltimore over the last month how many of the killers do you think were legal gun owners? The point I am trying to make is our police do not have a clue when confronting a suspect if they are armed or not which can make for a pretty hairy situation! 
How many gun related murders were there in England last month?
  

Greg!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fiddler
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I love American Pi

Posts: 23,084
Joined: Jan 28th, 2014
Gender: Male
Re: black Americans killed by cops 2x more likely to be unarmed than whites
Reply #4 - Jun 3rd, 2015 at 3:29pm
Print Post  
Redbeard wrote on Jun 3rd, 2015 at 3:02pm:
In Florida alone there are 1.4 million CCW's


I love the idea of registering gun nuts rather than guns..  When the takeover happens guns could be hard to find.


  

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
petep
Hardhat
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 13,477
Location: Maine
Joined: Mar 4th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: black Americans killed by cops 2x more likely to be unarmed than whites
Reply #5 - Jun 3rd, 2015 at 3:57pm
Print Post  
a few comments:

1. Obama and holder came out some time ago and stated that because blacks are convicted of felony offenses at such a high multiple of whites, that the laws must be examined...ie. its the laws that are racially discriminating. There was a fairly good study that if you only look at males between 18-40, blacks are 40x more likely than white male counterparts to be convicted of a crime. It's a startling stat.

This article did appear on the AP wire and was on the front page of yahoo....but there is an underlying theme that wants to point to laws as the problem, versus a race or group of people.

To me, there is a thick line between racism and profiling...

but you see hints of this in the article.

2. The study is extraordinarily vague and really does not tell us much without seeing the raw data.

For example, many gun ban advocates point to the famous Kellerman study, that points to people being 2.7x more likely to be killed by a gun who have a gun in the home....

no need to rehash it, it can be looked up....but his sample group was small and located in bad areas, included bad guys shot by cops...I think something like 80% of his sample group had prior convictions of domestic violence or a felony offense....hardly representative,

truly trash research...which has been debunked...but when it first came out rec'd all sorts of accolades despite refusals to publish the raw data or sample group profile...when it came out finally, it was shown to be garbage research.

Similar to when Clinton went on TV and proclaimed x kids are killed each day by a gun...if you did the math there'd be no more kids in 5 years....turns out they took a weekend of shootings in a couple small areas in I think LA and Detroit or DC....kids were defined up to 24 years in age....looked at those numbers as a percentage of the area measured and extrapolated it to the whole US...again, garbage research to promote an agenda.

3. I agree that there is a challenge out there - police respond to and investigate crime....the justice system is to provide sentencing....any shooting is by definition a sentencing - perhaps or perhaps not justified.

That said, it truly is impossible to compare the US to any other country without similar demographics. When castro opened up his prisons and sent them all to Miami...of course crime went up....if I sent them to the nicest town in Norway, crime would go up.

If I put mexico next to Canada, Canada's crime would go up. Almost 2/3rd of our CA criminals are illegals who have committed felonies.

4. Inner city black violence is somewhat unique to the US. Visit Bermuda and you will find almost no crime, pretty much full employment, a very educated local people, very proud, strong families....so you can't say its a universal black thing.

The fact is if you go to the DOJ website, you can look up violent crime by county....and even drill down within counties....you quickly learn that 90+% of all violent crime in the US happens in a very, very small geography in several cities.

So yes, overall, crime/gun related crime is very high....but it is so concentrated in such small areas that the average American is extraordinarily safe....relative to places with much lower overall crime, but a much wider distribution.

5. and what does unarmed mean? no gun, no knife, no arms, no rocks, no hammers....???

Ever been mugged or attacked. I have...as I'm sure many cops have been attacked making arrests....when someone starts throwing punches, or kicking, you really don't care if they have a gun or not....so when I fought back, would one say they are unarmed because they had no knife or gun...I think not...how many women have been killed at the hands of violent men....unarmed??

the only issue is was the shooting justified....

Is it a tragedy when some guy breaks into a home, looking to steal some cash or jewelry and gets shot and killed by a home owner...many would say yes, why take a life....I'd say you have no idea why they are in your home....and perhaps the obvious question....is it that hard not to break into a home.

Generally the people who have run ins with the law are committing a crime....so, the simple answer is don't commit crime and you probably won't have worries....

and if I'm part of a group that from a profiling perspective commits an astronomically disproportionately high amount of crime, I'd look first to what my peers are doing and reign them in, before I blame someone else...
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Archie
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 23,507
Location: Melbourne Florida
Joined: Mar 13th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: black Americans killed by cops 2x more likely to be unarmed than whites
Reply #6 - Jun 3rd, 2015 at 4:07pm
Print Post  
Limey. wrote on Jun 3rd, 2015 at 2:40pm:
Doubtless.

But - from my perspective in a country where the cops are generally unarmed - the impression is of a police force that is, erm, a little trigger-happy.

It's such a profound thing to take a life, you'd like to think it was only done in extremis. Teenaged kid accused of shoplifting? Shot for not stopping?

Jesus, that's fukced up.

Jasmine, please don't bother, we know what you pretend to think.


Limey, in this country we have a problem. And one party, known as the democrat party keeps giving a hand out instead of a hand up to the black race which keeps them poor and ignorant and living in danger all their lives. More now escape and become successful, but nowhere near enough. I know you are pretty good with math, so does this explain something to you? The rest of the ass holes, I don’t know.



FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?Nov 27, 2014 ... The offender's race was “unknown” in 29.1 per cent of cases. .... Chicago's
population is 1/3 black 1/3 white and 1/3 hispanic, asian and other.http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime/19439
Smiley
  

Freedom
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
notime
LNF Representative2
***
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 1,814
Joined: Sep 4th, 2014
Re: black Americans killed by cops 2x more likely to be unarmed than whites
Reply #7 - Jun 3rd, 2015 at 4:14pm
Print Post  
petep wrote on Jun 3rd, 2015 at 3:57pm:
a few comments:

1. Obama and holder came out some time ago and stated that because blacks are convicted of felony offenses at such a high multiple of whites, that the laws must be examined...ie. its the laws that are racially discriminating. There was a fairly good study that if you only look at males between 18-40, blacks are 40x more likely than white male counterparts to be convicted of a crime. It's a startling stat.

This article did appear on the AP wire and was on the front page of yahoo....but there is an underlying theme that wants to point to laws as the problem, versus a race or group of people.

To me, there is a thick line between racism and profiling...

but you see hints of this in the article.

2. The study is extraordinarily vague and really does not tell us much without seeing the raw data.

For example, many gun ban advocates point to the famous Kellerman study, that points to people being 2.7x more likely to be killed by a gun who have a gun in the home....

no need to rehash it, it can be looked up....but his sample group was small and located in bad areas, included bad guys shot by cops...I think something like 80% of his sample group had prior convictions of domestic violence or a felony offense....hardly representative,

truly trash research...which has been debunked...but when it first came out rec'd all sorts of accolades despite refusals to publish the raw data or sample group profile...when it came out finally, it was shown to be garbage research.

Similar to when Clinton went on TV and proclaimed x kids are killed each day by a gun...if you did the math there'd be no more kids in 5 years....turns out they took a weekend of shootings in a couple small areas in I think LA and Detroit or DC....kids were defined up to 24 years in age....looked at those numbers as a percentage of the area measured and extrapolated it to the whole US...again, garbage research to promote an agenda.

3. I agree that there is a challenge out there - police respond to and investigate crime....the justice system is to provide sentencing....any shooting is by definition a sentencing - perhaps or perhaps not justified.

That said, it truly is impossible to compare the US to any other country without similar demographics. When castro opened up his prisons and sent them all to Miami...of course crime went up....if I sent them to the nicest town in Norway, crime would go up.

If I put mexico next to Canada, Canada's crime would go up. Almost 2/3rd of our CA criminals are illegals who have committed felonies.

4. Inner city black violence is somewhat unique to the US. Visit Bermuda and you will find almost no crime, pretty much full employment, a very educated local people, very proud, strong families....so you can't say its a universal black thing.

The fact is if you go to the DOJ website, you can look up violent crime by county....and even drill down within counties....you quickly learn that 90+% of all violent crime in the US happens in a very, very small geography in several cities.

So yes, overall, crime/gun related crime is very high....but it is so concentrated in such small areas that the average American is extraordinarily safe....relative to places with much lower overall crime, but a much wider distribution.

5. and what does unarmed mean? no gun, no knife, no arms, no rocks, no hammers....???

Ever been mugged or attacked. I have...as I'm sure many cops have been attacked making arrests....when someone starts throwing punches, or kicking, you really don't care if they have a gun or not....so when I fought back, would one say they are unarmed because they had no knife or gun...I think not...how many women have been killed at the hands of violent men....unarmed??

the only issue is was the shooting justified....

Is it a tragedy when some guy breaks into a home, looking to steal some cash or jewelry and gets shot and killed by a home owner...many would say yes, why take a life....I'd say you have no idea why they are in your home....and perhaps the obvious question....is it that hard not to break into a home.

Generally the people who have run ins with the law are committing a crime....so, the simple answer is don't commit crime and you probably won't have worries....

and if I'm part of a group that from a profiling perspective commits an astronomically disproportionately high amount of crime, I'd look first to what my peers are doing and reign them in, before I blame someone else...


I'm white. I didn't realize it was my job to rein in white criminals.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
petep
Hardhat
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 13,477
Location: Maine
Joined: Mar 4th, 2007
Gender: Male
Re: black Americans killed by cops 2x more likely to be unarmed than whites
Reply #8 - Jun 3rd, 2015 at 4:19pm
Print Post  
that's because white criminals and white profiling are not the problems...the analogy would be when the catholic church had a problem with the cardinal in mass, it was the bishops that stood up and demanded his resignation...

the fact is if I were part of a group and that group were committing crime at a disproportionately high rate that it was affecting my ability to move forward as a good citizen, I'd do what I could to contribute to changing the statistic...as many of the good black leaders are doing - watts, cain, burns etc....Sharpton and Jackson and Obama are excluded from this group....
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Redbeard
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

Obama- he lies!!

Posts: 15,223
Location: jacksonville florida
Joined: Feb 24th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: black Americans killed by cops 2x more likely to be unarmed than whites
Reply #9 - Jun 3rd, 2015 at 4:32pm
Print Post  
Fiddler wrote on Jun 3rd, 2015 at 3:29pm:
I love the idea of registering gun nuts rather than guns..  When the takeover happens guns could be hard to find.



Florida has no gun registration law! All a CCW is permission to carry one concealed! Granted a CCW permit holder probably has a gun or maybe not! A CCW in Florida covers Knives, Tasers, pepper spray! It is a concealed weapons permit not a gun permit! Shocked Shocked
  

Greg!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › black Americans killed by cops 2x more likely to be unarmed than whites

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
A1 News Page
David Limbaugh
Political Frog
Conservatives Directory
President Trump Approval Poll
Presidential Party Election Poll
News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules