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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Speciation in "Real Time" (Read 4,249 times)
Frank1
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Re: Speciation in "Real Time"
Reply #10 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 11:31pm
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Mercy For All wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 9:11am:
But...I can't see it!


Well, I would say "what controls evolution/why doesn't it take place quickly?"

But in your case I guess you would, say 'God controls it,' and he decides (for some unfathomable reason) that it should be a slow process.

Of course biological evolution is false; but beyond that I am not sure you see how destructive this false mythology is...because this mythology never confines itself to mere prosaic talk of transitional species.

Right from the beginning it has been used to overturn all traditional understandings of not just how man came to be, but where he is going.

With biological evolution, man no longer needs God, he will become God, as we see foretold in 1001 science fiction novels.  This false mythology is of course also used to uphold the idea that modern man is progressing and doesn't need ideas from his past (including relics like Bronze Age religions). 

You will know them by their fruits: regardless of all other arguments you can know biological evolution is a false myth by its fruits, i.e., by the fact that it has consistently been used to argue against a Christian understanding of both our origins as well as our destination, that it has underpinned the worldview of most materialists throughout its existence, and that it is used to dismiss Christianity as something we are evolving (progressing) beyond...among other things.

...and yet you think you are somehow going to tame this false mythology and make it compatible with Christianity?  Never going to happen, you cannot make the false and the true work together.

« Last Edit: Nov 3rd, 2015 at 12:02am by Frank1 »  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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Frank1
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Re: Speciation in "Real Time"
Reply #11 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 11:39pm
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BowHunter wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 2:27am:
Speciation in nature takes normally millions of years, (about eight million years for humanity), even accelerated we haven't been around long enough to make that kind of change. However paleontology and countless digs have yielded thousands of cases of species evolving to others. The analysis of DNAs proved that the rate of mutation is almost constant over long stretches of time. We can now give a reasonable evaluation of the time two different species shared a common ancestor just by counting the differences in their DNAs. You people are basically the flat-earthers of biology.


Mercy can say "God decides the timescale" (one advantage, I suppose, of being a Christian evolutionist).

As to you though, why exactly, in a mindless Universe, should evolution be always a long process?

Why not fast today, and slow tomorrow, and in between the next?

« Last Edit: Nov 2nd, 2015 at 11:48pm by Frank1 »  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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Frank1
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Re: Speciation in "Real Time"
Reply #12 - Nov 2nd, 2015 at 11:47pm
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One last point for, Mercy:

Regardless of where you might want evolution to stop, others will use this false myth to just see man as a 'transitional species.'

But if man is a transitional species, than what does this make Jesus?

What I mean, is: compared to man what is a gorilla?  A mindless brute that slings its own crap with its bare hands.

So, will the transitional species homo sapiens one day evolve into something that looks on it as being a ridiculous brute, something to look at in zoos?

...and if man is one day surpassed and seen as a brute, what about the Son of God who became Man?  He must then become as ridiculous and sorry as the transitional species whose form he took. 

Just one of the myriad problems of trying to make biological evolution and Christianity coexist. 
« Last Edit: Nov 3rd, 2015 at 12:03am by Frank1 »  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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BowHunter
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Re: Speciation in "Real Time"
Reply #13 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 12:46am
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Frank1 wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 11:39pm:
Mercy can say "God decides the timescale" (one advantage, I suppose, of being a Christian evolutionist).

As to you though, why exactly, in a mindless Universe, should evolution be always a long process?

Why not fast today, and slow tomorrow, and in between the next?


The motion of a molecule in a gas is a random unpredictable phenomenon (because in its trajectory one molecule will hit billions of others every second), yet the laws governing a great number of molecules (billions of billions of them) are quite predictable.

The same applies to mutation, one mutation is unpredictable, one can never know in advance which gene will mutate in the next generation and which will not, yet the rate of mutation over a reasonably long period, (more than a hundred thousand years) is quite predictable and quasi- constant. These are elementary laws of statistics, if you can't grasp them then the study of sciences in general and evolution in particular, is not for you.

Even gravity obeys to these laws. You could as well ask: Why do all apples fall at the same speed? Why not one fast and the other slowly? The rest of your posting is just indigestible folderol, I am sorry to say.
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Frank1
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Re: Speciation in "Real Time"
Reply #14 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 12:52am
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BowHunter wrote on Nov 3rd, 2015 at 12:46am:
yet the laws governing a great number of molecules (billions of billions of them) are quite predictable.


...and why are they predictable?


Quote:
The same applies to mutation, one mutation is unpredictable, one can never know in advance which gene will mutate in the next generation and which will not, yet the rate of mutation over a reasonably long period, (more than a hundred thousand years) is quite predictable and quasi- constant. These are elementary laws of statistics, if you can't grasp them then the study of sciences in general and evolution in particular, is not for you.


I ask: why should the rate of mutation be predictable over a long period of time? 

What keeps it from varying wildly?

Quote:
Even gravity obeys to these laws. You could as well ask: Why do all apples fall at the same speed? Why not one fast and the other slowly? The rest of your posting is just indigestible folderol, I am sorry to say.


My questions are very much to the point.

Basically they come down to: "Why is there order in our Universe?"

Your replies are simply: "Because there is."
  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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Frank1
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Re: Speciation in "Real Time"
Reply #15 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 12:55am
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BowHunter wrote on Nov 2nd, 2015 at 2:27am:
We can now give a reasonable evaluation of the time two different species shared a common ancestor just by counting the differences in their DNAs.


'DNA' is like a magic codeword.

"The theory of biological evolution is true because: DNA!!!"


Humans and some of the great apes share what, 98% of our DNA?

Tell me, are apes capable of 98% of the activities that man is?

There are limits to what DNA can tell us, sorry to say.
  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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BowHunter
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Re: Speciation in "Real Time"
Reply #16 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 5:41am
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Your remarks are the proof of too great an ignorance for me to do anything about it.

I am asked to teach a blind man who puts his fingers in his ears and sings "lalalala" about colors.

Nobody can be held to that.
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Frank1
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Re: Speciation in "Real Time"
Reply #17 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 10:03am
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BowHunter wrote on Nov 3rd, 2015 at 5:41am:
Your remarks are the proof of too great an ignorance for me to do anything about it.

I am asked to teach a blind man who puts his fingers in his ears and sings "lalalala" about colors.

Nobody can be held to that.


So you cannot tell me why there is order in the Universe?

It is as if I was asking you who is the author of a book and what he is like and you just continue to describe the book.

Why is there order in the Universe?
  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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BowHunter
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Re: Speciation in "Real Time"
Reply #18 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 2:09pm
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Frank1 wrote on Nov 3rd, 2015 at 10:03am:
So you cannot tell me why there is order in the Universe?

It is as if I was asking you who is the author of a book and what he is like and you just continue to describe the book.

Why is there order in the Universe?

First, I never said that there was "order in the universe", whatever that means.

Second, ask questions that are relevant and specific to the thread or at the very least relevant to science in general or I'll remove your posts.

I won't tolerate any more spamming on your part.
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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BowHunter
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Re: Speciation in "Real Time"
Reply #19 - Nov 3rd, 2015 at 2:21pm
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The funny thing is that you didn't understand a word that I said. It's not because there is order that the rate of mutations is almost constant and/or there are laws governing great numbers of molecules in a gas. Quite the contrary, it's because these phenomena are chaotic and therefore completely random!!
  

Non sequitur:

The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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