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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Princeton students demand scrub of 'racist' Woodrow Wilson
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Princeton students demand scrub of 'racist' Woodrow Wilson (Read 1,256 times)
Frank1
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Re: Princeton students demand scrub of 'racist' Woodrow Wilson
Reply #20 - Nov 20th, 2015 at 7:03am
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Greg55_99 wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 3:58pm:
Yes.  Yes he was.

Greg


Well, is racist the worst possible thing a person can be?

The fact is, most people prefer their own ethnic or racial group to others...this is just the way humans are.

No great religion that I know of lists "racism" as one of the great sins...in fact in many ancient groups, like with Jews and Hindu's, one was expected to undergo a process of ritual purification after contact with outsiders.

For us, the word 'racist' has become one of the most terrible things one can be accused of being, when it fact, as I said, preference for ones own is totally normal.

At any rate, these students seem to want a form of segregation in calling for these black only spaces, while at the same time wanting whites to except them as exactly the same as us...this is very contradictory, obviously: they want it both ways.  But you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

That is the first way they are harming their own cause and showing simply incoherent anger.

The second way is that you will not get whites and blacks to live together in harmony by simply eliminating our history...in fact, this could have the opposite effect as what these people want.

You know there are many who say we no longer have racism since the civil rights movement...they use this as an excuse to say racism is now dead.

Well, if we scrub all the names of every white leader that could in any way be accused of being racist...guess what, this will be another excuse for those who say racism in America is dead and gone.

They will say "What are blacks complaining about now...we took down all the statues and renamed all the buildings?"....and many blacks will still be living in crime-infested poverty ridden areas.

Wendell Berry, certainly one who wants to try and 'bridge the gap' between the races in this country is right to say we are not going to do it be erasing history...that will in the end just make the problems worse.
« Last Edit: Nov 20th, 2015 at 7:12am by Frank1 »  


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Re: Princeton students demand scrub of 'racist' Woodrow Wilson
Reply #21 - Nov 20th, 2015 at 8:07am
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in a country where we have a black US president, black men like ben carson leading on the repub side, great black business leaders like ursala burns from xerox...its hard to argue there is widespread cultural racism...

no doubt there are some...but its clearly become a tiny, tiny fraction of a percent of the population...

these demonstrations do nothing but make the average person, who does not care what color you are, and cares about your accomplishments, take a step back and question why as a race these folks are doing this....trying to segregate themselves from other races.

and keep in mind, these are students at an ivy league, very expensive college...so you are either rich, or attending on the good graces of others via scholarship....why not be thankful, no matter what color you are, to have such an educational opportunity.
  
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Re: Princeton students demand scrub of 'racist' Woodrow Wilson
Reply #22 - Nov 20th, 2015 at 3:14pm
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Frank1 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 7:03am:
The fact is, most people prefer their own ethnic or racial group to others...this is just the way humans are.


...which is a significant problem if you're the chief executive of a multi-ethnic nation.

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No great religion that I know of lists "racism" as one of the great sins...


Race is a modern idea, so of course not.

A number of major religions cross ethnic, racial, and national boundaries.  Christianity claims to transcend the Jew-Gentile boundary, and if the Acts is reliable, the church was multi-racial/ethnic very early.  Islam sets a relatively strong boundary between believers and unbelievers, but it's unconcerned with ethnic, national, or racial boundaries in either group.  Buddhism doesn't seem to care about categories much at all, including race or ethnicity.  Even Tibetan Buddhism now includes non-Tibetan lamas.

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The second way is that you will not get whites and blacks to live together in harmony by simply eliminating our history...


Refusing to honor historical figures is different from eliminating history.  We can learn about Stalin without erecting statues of him.
  

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Frank1
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Re: Princeton students demand scrub of 'racist' Woodrow Wilson
Reply #23 - Nov 20th, 2015 at 4:26pm
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Running Deer wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 3:14pm:
...which is a significant problem if you're the chief executive of a multi-ethnic nation.


Race is a modern idea, so of course not.

A number of major religions cross ethnic, racial, and national boundaries.  Christianity claims to transcend the Jew-Gentile boundary, and if the Acts is reliable, the church was multi-racial/ethnic very early.  Islam sets a relatively strong boundary between believers and unbelievers, but it's unconcerned with ethnic, national, or racial boundaries in either group.  Buddhism doesn't seem to care about categories much at all, including race or ethnicity.  Even Tibetan Buddhism now includes non-Tibetan lamas.


Refusing to honor historical figures is different from eliminating history.  We can learn about Stalin without erecting statues of him.



Do not really disagree with anything you say, except that last.

Hey, maybe Woodrow Wilson did not like blacks...but he was no Stalin.
  


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Re: Princeton students demand scrub of 'racist' Woodrow Wilson
Reply #24 - Nov 20th, 2015 at 5:05pm
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Frank1 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 4:26pm:
Hey, maybe Woodrow Wilson did not like blacks...but he was no Stalin.


I wasn't suggesting Wilson was comparably evil to Stalin.  I was illustrating the difference between remembering and honoring.
  

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Re: Princeton students demand scrub of 'racist' Woodrow Wilson
Reply #25 - Nov 20th, 2015 at 5:32pm
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Running Deer wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 5:05pm:
I wasn't suggesting Wilson was comparably evil to Stalin.  I was illustrating the difference between remembering and honoring.


That's true you did not say they were comparably evil.

Anyways, I still say we can honor people who were racist.

To me such beliefs do not put one beyond the pale...besides, probably most of our white leaders through most of our history were racist to some extent.  To say we can no longer honor any of them is like telling the Chinese they can no longer honor any historical figure who thought of all non-Chinese as inferior barbarians because now China has parts of its population that are not Han Chinese (Tibetans, Uighurs, etc.).

Clearly we must be discerning.  For example, if someone like Robert E. Lee expressed the opinion that blacks were inferior to whites does this suddenly negate every single good quality the man had?  No, obviously.

As I said, we need to be discerning...the problem is the race issue in America is politicized and thus there is little room for discernment.
  


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Re: Princeton students demand scrub of 'racist' Woodrow Wilson
Reply #26 - Nov 20th, 2015 at 5:55pm
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lefties suddenly admitting Wilson was a racist? This is new.
  

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Re: Princeton students demand scrub of 'racist' Woodrow Wilson
Reply #27 - Nov 20th, 2015 at 6:33pm
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Frank1 wrote on Nov 20th, 2015 at 5:32pm:
Anyways, I still say we can honor people who were racist.


And you should expect pushback for it.  Racism killed a shitload of Americans and impoverished many more.  The wiser course would be to honor good deeds or wise sayings, not the person him/herself.  It's too easy for personal honor to become whitewashing.

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To say we can no longer honor any of them is like telling the Chinese they can no longer honor any historical figure who thought of all non-Chinese as inferior barbarians because now China has parts of its population that are not Han Chinese (Tibetans, Uighurs, etc.).


Han supremacy is a significant sore spot in China.  The Tibetans would be understandably outraged at a giant statue of Mao in Lhasa.  Your analogy actually disproves your point.

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As I said, we need to be discerning...the problem is the race issue in America is politicized and thus there is little room for discernment.


Race is a political construct, built by the force of law over hundreds of years.  Racial issues are inherently political.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently.  Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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