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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › The middle class is shrinking and why that is not all bad
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The middle class is shrinking and why that is not all bad (Read 2,620 times)
Harry_Seldon
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Re: The middle class is shrinking and why that is not all bad
Reply #10 - Dec 10th, 2015 at 5:14pm
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Frank1 wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 5:08pm:
I am not sure if there are as many good paying blue collar jobs as there used to be, perhaps TL has statistics on the issue.

Obviously the general assumption of most is that good blue collar jobs are less available than in the past, but maybe that assumption is wrong.





A rising river floats all boats. The ones moored to the government docks are the only ones not making headway.
  
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Possibly Logical
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Re: The middle class is shrinking and why that is not all bad
Reply #11 - Dec 10th, 2015 at 5:20pm
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The demographics. The middle class is becoming better off by moving upwards. The middle class is also shrinking because the lower, more dependent classes are not moving upwards. This suggests that they are satisfied to stay dependent instead of putting forth the effort to move up.



It could also be something structural causing the wages to diverge. The data does not provide enough information to differentiate between the two possibile explanations.
  
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Harry_Seldon
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Re: The middle class is shrinking and why that is not all bad
Reply #12 - Dec 10th, 2015 at 5:21pm
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Possibly Logical wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 5:20pm:
It could also be something structural causing the wages to diverge. The data does not provide enough information to differentiate between the two possibile explanations.


Government dependence is structural, it seems.
  
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Re: The middle class is shrinking and why that is not all bad
Reply #13 - Dec 10th, 2015 at 5:27pm
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Government dependence is structural, it seems.


By structural, I am talking more about the nature of technology and markets. Changes in these types of things could be causing the economic outcomes we are seeing.
  
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Frank1
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Re: The middle class is shrinking and why that is not all bad
Reply #14 - Dec 10th, 2015 at 5:32pm
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Possibly Logical wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 5:27pm:
By structural, I am talking more about the nature of technology and markets. Changes in these types of things could be causing the economic outcomes we are seeing.


Talking about technological changes, I wonder what effects self-driving trucks and increasing warehouse automation may entail for the blue collar sector.
  


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Re: The middle class is shrinking and why that is not all bad
Reply #15 - Dec 10th, 2015 at 5:34pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 3:05pm:


Do you think the claims made in the article are good?
  
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Harry_Seldon
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Re: The middle class is shrinking and why that is not all bad
Reply #16 - Dec 10th, 2015 at 5:55pm
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Possibly Logical wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 5:27pm:
By structural, I am talking more about the nature of technology and markets. Changes in these types of things could be causing the economic outcomes we are seeing.


Human beings have adapted to changes in markets for thousands of years. Are you suggesting that that a new sub-species, let's call it governmentus dependus, has emerged? You don't feel that some of us are capable of dealing with change anymore?
  
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notime
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Re: The middle class is shrinking and why that is not all bad
Reply #17 - Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:22pm
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The demographics. The middle class is becoming better off by moving upwards. The middle class is also shrinking because the lower, more dependent classes are not moving upwards. This suggests that they are satisfied to stay dependent instead of putting forth the effort to move up.



So you think that the poor just aren't working hard enough. To paint all of the poor with that brush is cruel and wrong but about one quarter of Americans think the same as you do. Do you think the rich are rich because they work harder than anyone else?

  
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Harry_Seldon
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Re: The middle class is shrinking and why that is not all bad
Reply #18 - Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:30pm
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notime wrote on Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:22pm:
So you think that the poor just aren't working hard enough. To paint all of the poor with that brush is cruel and wrong but about one quarter of Americans think the same as you do. Do you think the rich are rich because they work harder than anyone else?



I think that a huge population in this country is dependent on government by design. I think if government support to the extent that it is available weren't there people wouldn't depend on government support. I think that there is a wall erected by government support that some fear going beyond because they then lose that government support. If you faced a choice between earning more when earning more would mean losing more than your increased earnings, how would you choose.

All people act according to their self-interests, and if they face losing more than they gain by trying to move themselves to the next level of economic success, it takes someone that has an above average drive to do so when short-term losses are certain.

That's what I think.
  
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Old_Trapper
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Re: The middle class is shrinking and why that is not all bad
Reply #19 - Dec 10th, 2015 at 6:52pm
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Government dependence is structural, it seems.



You really never do learn.

Wages for the middle class have been in decline since Reagan, and his "supply side" economics" crap. Then again with the Bush recession of 2006.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2015/01/wages-decline-most-on-record-...

As to the "upward mobility" theory, that has also proven to be crap:

http://wamc.org/post/michael-meeropol-upward-mobility-decline#stream/0

As to the government, the rich need the government to keep the poor at the level they are in order to insure they get richer:

http://www.creators.com/lifestylefeatures/business-and-finance/taking-stock/amer...

So, no matter how you cut it, the bottom 20% can work their asses off, as many are, and will never get ahead in the current system. You wish to ignore the amount of wealth transferred from the middle class to the "1%" during the Bush recession for whatever reason you have. Makes no difference what reality is, you, and others like you, will never accept it.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/17/news/economy/wealth-gap-middle-class-rich/index....
  
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