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Mercy For All
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A Universalism Argument
Dec 30th, 2015 at 1:27pm
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Preface: I am not a universalist, and I am strong proponent of free will. But somebody threw this my way and I thought I would see how you guys would respond to this:

Those who are "saved" are those who confess Jesus as Lord--but sooner or later, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord.

I thought that was clever. How would you respond?
  

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fair-minded know it all
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Re: A Universalism Argument
Reply #1 - Dec 30th, 2015 at 5:18pm
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I also believe in free will.  Men always freely choose.
I don't think that's particularly clever.  It's simply one of the prooftexts that I've heard Universalists use often. It would be silly to park all day on that verse and insist it proves all men will be saved. 
Some day all will believe even as the devils believe.  Same can be said for confessing the truth/reality about Christ's Lordship.   
Confess now when it brings ridicule and persecution and Christ will confess and honor you before the Father.
When the fireworks begin, men will see the glorified Christ, will run in terror and ultimately will fall on their faces confessing the obvious, that Christ is Lord.  Then they will be bound and cast into the Lake of Fire/outer darkness, the place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. 
Paul is citing Isaiah 45, passages which speak both of God's great saving work and also judgment  "and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed"
  

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Mercy For All
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Re: A Universalism Argument
Reply #2 - Dec 30th, 2015 at 5:26pm
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fair-minded know it all wrote on Dec 30th, 2015 at 5:18pm:
I also believe in free will.  Men always freely choose.
I don't think that's particularly clever.  It's simply one of the prooftexts that I've heard Universalists use often.


Is it? Oh, it's the first time I've heard it expressed this way.

Quote:
It would be silly to park all day on that verse and insist it proves all men will be saved.


True. It's never a good idea to build a doctrine on a single verse...

Quote:
Some day all will believe even as the devils believe.  Same can be said for confessing the truth/reality about Christ's Lordship.


What's the difference between "recognizing Christ as Lord" and "recognizing Christ as Lord"? I mean, consider if the first is done willingly and the second is not...isn't the end result the same?

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Confess now when it brings ridicule and persecution and Christ will confess and honor you before the Father.


Is that the criterion? Earning ridicule and persecution? Wouldn't it be just as shameful or moreso to "bend the knee at the end"?

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When the fireworks begin, men will see the glorified Christ, will run in terror and ultimately will fall on their faces confessing the obvious, that Christ is Lord.


What's the difference in the declaration between when it's obvious and when it's not?
  

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Re: A Universalism Argument
Reply #3 - Dec 30th, 2015 at 5:55pm
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Mercy For All wrote on Dec 30th, 2015 at 5:26pm:
What's the difference in the declaration between when it's obvious and when it's not?


Faith.
  

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Mercy For All
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Re: A Universalism Argument
Reply #4 - Dec 30th, 2015 at 6:45pm
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fair-minded know it all wrote on Dec 30th, 2015 at 5:55pm:
Faith.


And yet some people say "God's existence is obvious, how can you not see it?"

Further, "faith" is not simply "accepting the reality of..." To use your example, the devil accepts the reality of God, but doesn't have "faith."
  

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Re: A Universalism Argument
Reply #5 - Dec 30th, 2015 at 8:19pm
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Mercy For All wrote on Dec 30th, 2015 at 6:45pm:
And yet some people say "God's existence is obvious, how can you not see it?"


Because they lack faith.

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Further, "faith" is not simply "accepting the reality of..." To use your example, the devil accepts the reality of God, but doesn't have "faith."


Of course not. Saving faith is not simply "accepting the  reality."
True faith results in a person committing themselves to the object of faith.  Of course I'm not talking about believing as the devils "believe"  but believing as the Saints believe.
  

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