Liberty News Forum
Political News Forum - Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. Not for wimps!
Political Opinion Page - Recent Posts - LNF Forums LNF in the Age of Empowerment! Algorithm free!
Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Entertainment - Sports Forum
Military - A1 News Page - Computers Tech - Financial News - Bunker - Rasmussen Presidential Tracking Poll
The House - Off the Wall News - Page 2 - Rasmussen Reports Polls - Chat Room
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereEconomics, Financial News › Is the minimum wage Constitutional?
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Is the minimum wage Constitutional? (Read 27,747 times)
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker

Posts: 11,910
Joined: Jan 21st, 2012
Re: Is the minimum wage Constitutional?
Reply #130 - Apr 5th, 2016 at 2:46pm
Print Post  
Goose wrote on Apr 4th, 2016 at 2:31pm:
Another dose of reality.

I run a business that provides an extremely realistic six figure income to pretty much ANYONE that wants to do the work.  Since I have been doing this I have found out a few things about people.

1.  Most people think that my business is some kind of get rich quick deal where they can work less and earn more.  They are shocked to learn that owning you own business (which they do) is really a medium to work more than the masses and therefore earn more than the masses.

2.  Most people either are afraid or just plain don't want to do the things that would distinguish them from the average person.  They are very creative about formulating excuses for what they did not do instead of formulating reasons to do what they need to do.

3. Most people seem to think that you have to love everything about what your job entails.  In reality you only have to love one thing.  The results.  Trust me, if I were to win a mega lottery I would shut down my business in a heart beat because I would not need the results any more.  I do dozens of tasks every day.  Some I like to do, some I don't like to do, some I just to care one way or another.  However I am mature enough to realize that they all must be done in order for me to obtain the results I am seeking. 

4. Most people can't get this simple truism through their collective brain housing units....If your life sucks and your situation sucks, then YOU suck and in order to change YOUR situation YOU have to stop sucking.

5. Most people can't find the time to change their lives, yet they tell me they don't have time while they are sitting on their couches.  This is not an exaggeration.  People who are literally doing NOTHING will tell me they are too busy to do ANYTHING.  It's sad but true.

I do not run an MLM.  I run a very old fashioned direct sales organization.  The great thing about my business is that I end up paying every one exactly what they are worth.  I am looking at the checks that I am getting ready to deliver tonight.

Person A was worth $5353.14 last WEEK
Person B was worth $2186.79 last WEEK
Person C was worth $3214.25 last WEEK
Person D was worth $239.92 last WEEK
Persons E thru H were worth NOTHING

Here is the cool thing.  As the business owner I made a TON of money by providing A-C their opportunities.  Two of them are only working Part Time!
Now some of the folks A-H made some obvious sacrifices last week.  Some of the folks did some things they don't like to do like make phone calls, schedule appointments, generate leads etc.  Some of the folks did not go through the pain of sacrifice and never faced having to do something they did not like to do.  I wonder who will be happy with the results tonight?

I beat my head on the wall every day watching people fritter away what was laid in front of them.  I almost puked when I asked one of my people what they thought the answer to their families money problems where and they replied "if only my husband would come to work where I do so he can make $14.00 an hour also..."

So you see, the REALITY is not that there are people who are being kept down by the man.  The REALITY is that there are people who don't care enough to change their own lives.  They allow others to convince them that their is a boogey man out there that is going to get them.  They allow fear to overcome them.  The REALITY is that as long as we allow and empower that type of thinking, like any disease, it will only get worse. 
So at the end of the day here is another truism that we all need to live by...

Some will...Some won't...So What?...

PS...don't mistake any of this to mean we should not take care of those who CANNOT take care of themselves.  However CANNOT and WILL NOT are very different.  Think of what we could do for those who CANNOT if the WILL NOT's were not leaching resources from them.


non sumus stulti
accidit stercore
Back to top
IP Logged
LNF Speaker


Posts: 14,825
Joined: May 11th, 2004
Re: Is the minimum wage Constitutional?
Reply #131 - Apr 5th, 2016 at 8:59pm
Print Post  
EF wrote on Mar 31st, 2016 at 11:43pm:
Maybe.  I dunno.  I do know this: people who spend hours reading economic theory pretty well determine what's real by the predictions made in that theory, and to hell with what really happens.

Theory is a means of explaining what really happens.  Deducing things like cause and effect, etc.

it may well be true that a profit oriented business would hire two people to do a job one could do if he could hire two for half as much each as he would have to pay one.  I probably wouldn't, [/quote]

Who said anything about hiring two people to do a job that one can do?

Anyway, let's see what happens when the minimum wage certainly increases.  If fewer floors need sweeping or a smaller percentage of youth seeking jobs are employed, you can give me a well deserved "neener neener neener."  I predict it ain't gonna happen.  Never has, anyway.

Do you think that fewer floors would "need" sweeping if the minimum wage was $1,000?  At what point does your logic reverse?  How is that point determined?

Now, technology DOES replace manual labor, but that's gonna happen regardless because people get sick, they don't show up to work, they need time off, etc.

Those are things that we might consider to be increasers of the cost/benefit ratio in terms of the employee/employer relationship.  Inefficiencies, especially the kind that are unpredictable, like getting sick, hamper that cost benefit ratio.  They increase the ratio of costs to benefits.  Another thing that increases that ratio is a higher cost of employment.  Whether it is an increase in the minimum wage or an increase in the Medicare tax.   

As one example I would offer sharecropping.

It was basically slavery, let alone minimum wage considerations.  Machines still replaced them.

If slavery was illegal, would machinery have replaced them sooner, later or at the same time?

But I know: hundreds of pounds of economic theory predict it, therefore it must be happening.  See post 11 for my opinion on that.


EF wrote on Mar 31st, 2016 at 11:55pm:
But your and Wyatt's concern for America's youth is quite touching.

Thank you!  I wish more folks were as concerned.

What a company can sell something for is not as much related to his costs as his costs are related to what he can sell for.  It is true if his costs go up there is pressure to increase his prices.  But competition might not allow that.

But what if this makes the organization less profitable or even unprofitable?  It might drive that business to close.  Then what happens to competition?  Wouldn't there be less competition?  Thus less pressure to keep prices low for those that remain?

It might be that he has to eat some or all of it, and it may be that he's still very profitable - just not quite as much.

Or he might not be.

If it were that easy to increase one's prices, why wait for a cost to go up?  Most sellers are charging what they think the market will bear, and their profit is derived from keeping their costs below that.

Do higher costs deter or prevent competition to any degree?  What happens to "what...the market will bear" when less competition exists?

It is an incredibly simplistic view of human nature and real world business that takes the view there is never a real wage increase from increases to the minimum wage, and I would submit it is rather narrow minded and unrealistic to believe there is anything more than a temporary displacement of workers from minimum wage increases as a result of those increases (remember, they can and do occur for many other reasons) and that those displacements are not "cured" within a very short time following such increases.

It is an incredibly simplistic view of human nature and real world business that takes the view that trade activity would remain static in the face of changing prices and I would submit that it is rather narrow minded and unrealistic to believe that a business would not change their strategy and hiring plans in reaction to an increase in the cost of certain strategies.
Back to top
IP Logged
LNF Staffer

Posts: 32
Location: Monterey, Ca
Joined: Jun 12th, 2016
Gender: Male
Re: Is the minimum wage Constitutional?
Reply #132 - Aug 6th, 2016 at 5:22pm
Print Post  
Jasmine wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 7:41pm:
I just read that California lawmakers want to raise the state's minimum wage to $15 an hour.

My question is: Why is government (federal or state) allowed to dictate to private business owners how much they should pay their employees?

Because the government is also protecting businesses from competition, primarily with patents and copyright but also with state and local ordinances, zoning laws, licensing, and superfluous consumer safety and environmental protection regulations.  This directly infringes on real (physical) property rights and prohibits individuals from employing themselves, thus necessitating minimum wages and welfare and the subsidization of monopsonistic employers to stimulate job creation.  The government supports this not only because it's run by the rich who want to stay rich and keep getting richer but to help collect income and payroll taxes from us laboring fools.  Since federal revenue is directly proportional to wages and some 60% of the work force are unskilled laborers, they don't want employers paying poverty wages while generating windfall profits.  The smartest thing the rich ever did was keep the poor just happy enough not to revolt.

Jasmine wrote on Mar 28th, 2016 at 7:41pm:
If I were President, one of the first things I would do is abolish the minimum wage. In my view, that is the ultimate in government intrusion.

Before you abolish minimum wages or welfare, you have to repeal the copyright clause of the U.S. Constitution (article 1, section 8, clause 8) and abolish exclusive production rights so that direct competition becomes legal and everyone is free to employ themselves.  If you abolish minimum wages or welfare without first abolishing exclusive production rights, the poverty rate will reach crisis levels, strikes and protests will turn into violent riots, shop lifting will turn into flash mobs, home invasions, kidnappings, rape and murder will explode until you (as POTUS) are forced to declare marshal law, thereby ending the U.S. Constitution and turning America into a fascist police state.
« Last Edit: Aug 9th, 2016 at 9:19pm by SapphireSpire »  

Proud FairTax supporter.
Back to top
IP Logged
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 
Send TopicPrint
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereEconomics, Financial News › Is the minimum wage Constitutional?

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room

Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
A1 News Page
David Limbaugh
Political Frog
Conservatives Directory
President Trump Approval Poll
Presidential Party Election Poll News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules