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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Mormonism and PC (Read 1,886 times)
Limey
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Re: Mormonism and PC
Reply #10 - Aug 27th, 2016 at 8:10pm
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MikeGlosterIII wrote on Aug 25th, 2016 at 10:19pm:
As in the past, the concept of a written Constitution escapes you. Our magnificent Constitution clearly states there can be no religous test for public office.That means whatever you or anyone thinks of a candidate's faith is irrelevent, save for one's private decision.





In discussing whether or not someone is worthy of a vote, only the private decisions are ultimately relevant.  Saying that the candidates' faith is irrelevant except (as a factor in) one's private decision is puzzling.
  

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Limey
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Re: Mormonism and PC
Reply #11 - Aug 27th, 2016 at 8:13pm
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MikeGlosterIII wrote on Aug 27th, 2016 at 3:00pm:
The fact that you consider a candidate's faith to be a subject for consideration. It is understood your personal view of Mormonism actually, at least in regards to their theology, is pretty much in line with mine, though they are some of the best people ,of whom I know. Here, again, no matter how silly you may consider one's faith, it has zero to do with their candidacy. I consider Socialism to be immoral, stupid and logically unsupportable. But, under your laws, it is legal, and not a matter for debate for said legality.


Obviously -like, really, really obviously- a candidate's faith is a subject for consideration.

Are you seriously suggesting you think otherwise?

I am astonished.
  

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MikeGlosterIII
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Re: Mormonism and PC
Reply #12 - Aug 27th, 2016 at 10:47pm
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Limey wrote on Aug 27th, 2016 at 8:13pm:
Obviously -like, really, really obviously- a candidate's faith is a subject for consideration.

Are you seriously suggesting you think otherwise?

I am astonished.



As always, I apologize for astonishing you. But, our Constitution forbids a religious test for any elected position.
  

Let a man meet a she-bear robbed of her cubs rather than a fool in his folly. Proverbs 17:12 (ESV)
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Re: Mormonism and PC
Reply #13 - Aug 28th, 2016 at 8:15am
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MikeGlosterIII wrote on Aug 27th, 2016 at 10:47pm:
As always, I apologize for astonishing you. But, our Constitution forbids a religious test for any elected position.


Does it prohibit you, as a citizen, deciding not to vote for a candidate because he is a Scientologist?

Carefully read the question.  It is not "does the Constitution forbid a Scientologist from standing?".
  

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Re: Mormonism and PC
Reply #14 - Aug 29th, 2016 at 10:06pm
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Limey wrote on Aug 22nd, 2016 at 10:20pm:
Anyhoo...  In the political boards, I am currently suggesting that for the US to have considered a Mormon -Romney - as President,  hints at a deep problem in your political system.

Because Mormonism is entirely stupid, and obviously fictional.


Indeed, and if he had run for Pontifex Maximus, that would have been a serious concern.  Fortunately, we have no such office.  Ironically, the Mormons are one of the healthiest communities in the nation: low crime, low divorce, low bastardy, low drug use, low alcohol abuse, well-educated, and successful in business.  If someone were to ask me if I would rather have Appalachia convert en masse to atheism or the Mormon church, I'd really have to think about it.  They're that healthy.

I should note that you have a state church founded by a inbred politician who acquired his position as an accident of birth and decided to form a new religion so he could divorce his wife.  The next head of your church doesn't appear to believe in it whatsoever, and neither do most of its chief administrators or the population at large.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Mormonism and PC
Reply #15 - Aug 29th, 2016 at 10:20pm
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Running Deer wrote on Aug 29th, 2016 at 10:06pm:
Indeed, and if he had run for Pontifex Maximus, that would have been a serious concern.  Fortunately, we have no such office.  Ironically, the Mormons are one of the healthiest communities in the nation: low crime, low divorce, low bastardy, low drug use, low alcohol abuse, well-educated, and successful in business.  If someone were to ask me if I would rather have Appalachia convert en masse to atheism or the Mormon church, I'd really have to think about it.  They're that healthy.

I should note that you have a state church founded by a inbred politician who acquired his position as an accident of birth and decided to form a new religion so he could divorce his wife.  The next head of your church doesn't appear to believe in it whatsoever, and neither do most of its chief administrators or the population at large.


I suspect that if Big Henry was alive now,  you'd modify your tone somewhat  Grin



They are lovely people no doubt, and their relifion is an obvious bit of tomfoolery.

How is their long list of positive attributes relevant to my point?

Like many, you misunderstand the nature of the relationship between the Church of England and the State, and indeed the population.

Religion is, for all practical purposes,  absolutely inconsequential in British politics.

That, for many years, has been so.

Back to Mormonism as a reason to doubt a person's judgement; would you trust someone who takes that shit seriously?
  

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Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Mormonism and PC
Reply #16 - Aug 30th, 2016 at 12:54pm
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Limey wrote on Aug 29th, 2016 at 10:20pm:
I suspect that if Big Henry was alive now,  you'd modify your tone somewhat  Grin


My people have spent the last several hundred years running through the mountains from the American lawman, and before that, several hundred years reeving the Scottish-English border.  Chances are good, if our dread sovereign lord Henry were alive, I wouldn't be terribly generous, either.  LOL

Quote:
How is their long list of positive attributes relevant to my point?


It illustrates how someone can believe something so obviously stupid and false, yet live a positive, well-adjusted, successful life.  Religious beliefs don't have much to do with goodness, competence, or much of anything else, really.  Just as religion doesn't make people good, it doesn't make them incompetent or foolish.

Quote:
Religion is, for all practical purposes,  absolutely inconsequential in British politics.

That, for many years, has been so.


I don't misunderstand.  I'm laughing at the absurdity of a nation having a state church no one actually believes in, in a nation where no one is religious except the immigrants.

Quote:
Back to Mormonism as a reason to doubt a person's judgement; would you trust someone who takes that shit seriously?


Having worked with several Mormons, you would ignore them at your peril.  They are, by far, the most boring people I've ever met.  They're also disciplined, well-educated, hard-working, low in ego, and well-adjusted.  While you're having a laugh at their holy underpants, they're writing the memo that will get them promoted over you.
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Mormonism and PC
Reply #17 - Aug 31st, 2016 at 12:27pm
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Other than the time of day, I cannot remember anything upon which we agree. So, it's interesting my experiences with Mormons is identical to your"s. But, that raises a question : 

"Having worked with several Mormons, you would ignore them at your peril.  They are, by far, the most boring people I've ever met.  They're also disciplined, well-educated, hard-working, low in ego, and well-adjusted.  While you're having a laugh at their holy underpants, they're writing the memo that will get them promoted over you.

Religious beliefs don't have much to do with goodness, competence, or much of anything else, really.  Just as religion doesn't make people good, it doesn't make them incompetent or foolish."

If faith has nothing to do with making  one good, what is your explanation as to the character of the Mormon Community ?

  

Let a man meet a she-bear robbed of her cubs rather than a fool in his folly. Proverbs 17:12 (ESV)
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Re: Mormonism and PC
Reply #18 - Aug 31st, 2016 at 5:21pm
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MikeGlosterIII wrote on Aug 31st, 2016 at 12:27pm:
Other than the time of day, I cannot remember anything upon which we agree.


We both agree the LDS church has false teachings, though we have very different reasons for thinking so.

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If faith has nothing to do with making  one good, what is your explanation as to the character of the Mormon Community ?


I haven't studied their history in depth, but here's what I remember.  In the 19th century, a small group of farmers and shopkeepers in upstate New York coalesced around a man named Joseph Smith.  Smith claimed to have received a third testament from the angel Moroni.  Based on this third testament (The Book of Mormon) and Smith's reinterpretation of the the Bible, this new group began attracting locals.  Mainstream Christians were incensed at the Mormon doctrines and drove the group from New York.

The group traveled across the country - Smith was martyred by an irate mob of mainstream Christians - until they reached Utah.  Upon reaching the Salt Lake, they founded a new society.

Due to religious intolerance, murder, and hardship, the Mormons had dwindled down to the most committed members.  Although most of them were middle-class when they converted, they had essentially nothing but the clothes on their backs.  The new society divided the new region relatively evenly and demanded participation in the church.  Normally, demanding participation in the church would give church leaders the irresistible opportunity of robbing its congregations and living high off the hog.  (Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees!  Hypocrites!)

But the Mormons began as an equal movement of middle-class people and has mostly remained so for its history.  As a result, regardless of their advanced spiritual position, church leaders are expected to live by middle-class values: sober, chaste, hard-working, humble, not given to showy displays of wealth, egalitarian, etc.  Most of these values are shared by middle-class Protestants, but the founders of the church needed such a high level of commitment that adherence to these values was deeply burned into Mormon culture.

Note that, despite adding another testament, Mormon doctrine on how to live isn't significantly different from mainstream Christianity.  What's different is the cultural effect of the hardships the Mormon founders faced and the cultural character of the founding population.

(Although I don't consider Mormons to be Christians, I tried to write this explanation without taking a side in the debate.)
  

"If cousins, I would much prefer to marry one my Neanderthal relatives than a screeching chimpanzee which might bite my face off as has happened recently. Of course, chimps are not even a human species so procreation between humans and chimps is out of the question." - joe_christian, on sex
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Re: Mormonism and PC
Reply #19 - Sep 1st, 2016 at 12:34am
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Running Deer wrote on Aug 30th, 2016 at 12:54pm:
My people have spent the last several hundred years running through the mountains from the American lawman, and before that, several hundred years reeving the Scottish-English border.  Chances are good, if our dread sovereign lord Henry were alive, I wouldn't be terribly generous, either.  LOL



Ah.

Generation after generation of criminals.... I see. Grin
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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