Liberty News Forum
Political News Forum - Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. Not for wimps!
Political Opinion Page - Recent Posts - LNF Forums LNF in the Age of Empowerment!
Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Entertainment - Sports Forum
Military - A1 News Page - Computers Tech - Financial News - Bunker - Presidential Tracking Poll
The House - Off the Wall News - Page 2 - Rasmussen Reports Polls - Chat Room
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereReligion Forum › Richard Dawkins, philosophical misfit
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Richard Dawkins, philosophical misfit (Read 1,069 times)
Frank1
LNF Majority Leader
***
Offline


Posts: 6,827
Joined: May 18th, 2005
Gender: Male
Richard Dawkins, philosophical misfit
Dec 17th, 2016 at 12:41pm
Print Post  
So my fiance's sister, a Catholic nun, just visited her from Taiwan, and a friend of her's, an astronomer who works with the Vatican Observatory came along.

We got to talking, starting with C.S. Lewis and Tolkien.  He is also a mathematician and he talked about how Lewis was reacting against the triumphant modernism of the 30's and 40's.  In particular he talked about the modernist philosopher/mathematician, Bertrand Russell.

Now, I don't know anything about Russell as a mathematician but this man told me that one of Russell's ideas was that we could have a mathematics free of axioms (i.e., free of assumptions), but that this modernist view was shattered by the German mathematician Godel, who proved that mathematics without axioms (i.e., without assumptions) is not possible. 

So we got to talking about how even though among a good deal of intellectuals, triumphal modernism has not been adhered to for decades, among the populace as a whole adherence to such a worldview may be more widespread than ever, due in large part to the fact that our schools still work on a modernist paradigm.

He said, for instance, that in Italy, high school students are taught traditional philosophy, including things like Aquinas's proofs of God, whereas here we receive nothing like that.  He said (something I totally agree with) that it is as if education in America and Commonwealth countries existed to do nothing besides train doctors and engineers.

At one point I mentioned Richard Dawkins, and his dismissal of Dawkin's was immediate.  Dawkin's is "a confused philosophical misfit" who doesn't understand either the place and purpose of philosophy or science.
  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BowHunter
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 17,354
Location: America
Joined: Dec 5th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Richard Dawkins, philosophical misfit
Reply #1 - Dec 17th, 2016 at 2:27pm
Print Post  
That's all you got? Someone, who's a mathematical imbecile (Russell's and Gödel's works have nothing to do with whether mathematics needs axioms. It's about consistency and completeness.) told you that he thought that he didn't like Dawkins ideas? Boy, you could keep your borborygmi to yourself.
  

Non sequitur:

The Hamster is at it Again wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Frank1
LNF Majority Leader
***
Offline


Posts: 6,827
Joined: May 18th, 2005
Gender: Male
Re: Richard Dawkins, philosophical misfit
Reply #2 - Dec 17th, 2016 at 7:42pm
Print Post  
BowHunter wrote on Dec 17th, 2016 at 2:27pm:
That's all you got? Someone, who's a mathematical imbecile (Russell's and Gödel's works have nothing to do with whether mathematics needs axioms. It's about consistency and completeness.) told you that he thought that he didn't like Dawkins ideas? Boy, you could keep your borborygmi to yourself.


I already knew Dawkin's was a fool.

At any rate, to compare what he was saying about Russell's and Godel's views of mathematics to economics, from what he said it seemed Russell was akin to a standard modern economist who believed in statistics, and empirical models and thus the application of science to economics, whereas Godel would be like a Misesian economist who believes that the field of economics is built on axioms that can be discerned through logical reasoning, and that the field needs no empirical inputs.

So I take it he was saying Russell believed that mathematics could be founded on an empirical rather than an axiomatic basis, whereas Godel showed that mathematics is inevitably built on axioms.

I would take the axiomatic view myself.  I have rejected empirical studies as ultimately subjective and vastly deficient (you cannot account for all variables) since I was made to take a course on them in college.  I intuitively rebelled against the idea that one could build any type of knowledge out of empirical studies.

Rather, knowledge is about discerning axiomatical truths through logic.

At any rate, if you have anything to offer besides insults I will listen.   Wink
  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 15,909
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: Richard Dawkins, philosophical misfit
Reply #3 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 9:49pm
Print Post  
Frank,  you know I like you.

Before we go any further,  can you tell me which of Richard Dawkins' books you've read?
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 15,909
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: Richard Dawkins, philosophical misfit
Reply #4 - Dec 19th, 2016 at 9:53pm
Print Post  
... And, after that, can you expand a bit on how a man in a sealed box could give us the SR71 and toothpaste, better than could a team of busy æronatical engineers and chemistry students?

Thanks.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BowHunter
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 17,354
Location: America
Joined: Dec 5th, 2013
Gender: Male
Re: Richard Dawkins, philosophical misfit
Reply #5 - Dec 20th, 2016 at 5:55am
Print Post  
Limey wrote on Dec 19th, 2016 at 9:53pm:
... And, after that, can you expand a bit on how a man in a sealed box could give us the SR71 and toothpaste, better than could a team of busy æronatical engineers and chemistry students?

Thanks.

That's as adequate a definition of religion as any.
  

Non sequitur:

The Hamster is at it Again wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 15,909
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: Richard Dawkins, philosophical misfit
Reply #6 - Dec 23rd, 2016 at 9:11pm
Print Post  
Frank.

Please.

The list of Dawkins works that you've read.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fiddler
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

Trolls exterminated while
you wait.

Posts: 18,841
Joined: Jan 28th, 2014
Gender: Male
Re: Richard Dawkins, philosophical misfit
Reply #7 - Jan 20th, 2017 at 10:18pm
Print Post  
Limey wrote on Dec 23rd, 2016 at 9:11pm:
Frank.

Please.

The list of Dawkins works that you've read.


He's read none.   Frank may be able to follow The Blind Watchmaker but The Extended Phenotype is beyond him.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Online

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 15,909
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: Richard Dawkins, philosophical misfit
Reply #8 - Jan 23rd, 2017 at 8:27pm
Print Post  
Fiddler wrote on Jan 20th, 2017 at 10:18pm:
He's read none.   Frank may be able to follow The Blind Watchmaker but The Extended Phenotype is beyond him.


It's beyond me too.

I have nowhere near enough science to judge such work.

"the blind watchmaker  & " the God Delusion  though are accessible to anyone with a pulse.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fiddler
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

Trolls exterminated while
you wait.

Posts: 18,841
Joined: Jan 28th, 2014
Gender: Male
Re: Richard Dawkins, philosophical misfit
Reply #9 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 1:22pm
Print Post  
Limey wrote on Jan 23rd, 2017 at 8:27pm:
It's beyond me too.

I have nowhere near enough science to judge such work.

"the blind watchmaker  & " the God Delusion  though are accessible to anyone with a pulse.



Admittedly .. The Extended Phenotype is a slog .. I read it twice twenty odd years ago..

'Well..lookie here ..

The God Delusion

The Blind Watchmaker

The Extended Phenotype
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereReligion Forum › Richard Dawkins, philosophical misfit

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules