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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Trump's phone is still a security leak... (Read 4,555 times)
forgotten centrist
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Re: Trump's phone is still a security leak...
Reply #110 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 10:09am
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I'm not fighting a case in a court of law.  If I were prosecuting Trump for using an unsecured phone, my evidence would fall short of the high bar needed to win a conviction.  You got me there.

We know he used that old Galaxy on the campaign trail.  There are pictures of him with it in his office in Trump Tower, January 16.

We know (from the NYT's "sources") that Trump has chosen to keep a personal phone, in spite of the fact that the govt has issued him a secure bat-phone.

We know that his tweets come from at least 2 different devices.

We know that completely locking down a phone, as requested by Obama, was so difficult that they couldn't do it a second time for his Number 2.

There was press coverage when he was issued his govt bat-phone.  It did not say he was issued TWO govt bat-phones.

The Trump team has ignored basic common security protocols throughout these first weeks in office.  They walk into press areas with classified documents exposed.  They have private email accounts on the RNC email server, hackable as it might be.  They discuss international incidents in semi-public settings and lay out classified documents on tables where dozens of people are walking around with phone cameras.

If I were a lawyer, I wouldn't win a case here.  If I were an investigator, I would have a very strong case for an official inquiry.

Lomelis wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 9:50am:
I'm also not Trump and I can't speak for his own personal preferences.


And that is the crux of this.  Trump thinks his own personal preferences should hold sway.  He likes his old phone, and doesn't want to give it up.  And there is no law that requires him to do so.  But his old phone is completely hackable.  It is a walking microphone.  It must be considered a KGB wiretap at this point.  His "personal preferences" are putting the country's security at risk.
  

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Re: Trump's phone is still a security leak...
Reply #111 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 10:40am
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forgotten centrist wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 10:09am:
I'm not fighting a case in a court of law.  If I were prosecuting Trump for using an unsecured phone, my evidence would fall short of the high bar needed to win a conviction.  You got me there.


Much worse than that, you'd literally be laughed out of the court.

Quote:
We know he used that old Galaxy on the campaign trail.  There are pictures of him with it in his office in Trump Tower, January 16.


Yes, we know that he used an old Galaxy on the campaign trail. 

Quote:
We know (from the NYT's "sources") that Trump has chosen to keep a personal phone, in spite of the fact that the govt has issued him a secure bat-phone.


We don't know that at all.  In one article the NYT also says he turned in his personal phone.

Quote:
We know that his tweets come from at least 2 different devices.


Ok.

Quote:
We know that completely locking down a phone, as requested by Obama, was so difficult that they couldn't do it a second time for his Number 2.


4 years ago this may have been the case.  Things change we really don't know what the capabilities are.  All I know is that if they can do one phone, they can definitely do other phones.

Quote:
There was press coverage when he was issued his govt bat-phone.  It did not say he was issued TWO govt bat-phones.


That same press coverage said he turned in his old phone.

Quote:
The Trump team has ignored basic common security protocols throughout these first weeks in office. 


Alright but this has nothing to do with his phone/phones.

Quote:
They walk into press areas with classified documents exposed. 


Ok, and this has nothing to do with the phone.

Quote:
They have private email accounts on the RNC email server, hackable as it might be. 


Are they using those accounts for official government business?  Or were they using them simply before they got their .gov accounts?

Quote:
They discuss international incidents in semi-public settings and lay out classified documents on tables where dozens of people are walking around with phone cameras.


Once again nothing to do with phones, and from the reports I've read the information wasn't classified.

Quote:
If I were a lawyer, I wouldn't win a case here.  If I were an investigator, I would have a very strong case for an official inquiry.


If you had more facts than simply he used multiple devices when everyone already knows you can log on using multiple devices.


Quote:
And that is the crux of this.  Trump thinks his own personal preferences should hold sway.  He likes his old phone, and doesn't want to give it up.  And there is no law that requires him to do so.  But his old phone is completely hackable.  It is a walking microphone.  It must be considered a KGB wiretap at this point.  His "personal preferences" are putting the country's security at risk.


Assuming he never turned it in.

Assuming that he didn't or couldn't get his old phone secured, despite all the resources available to the Pres.

Assuming that it has been hacked.

Assuming that even if all that is true that our security would actually be at risk.  Lol.

Lot of assumptions.
  

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Re: Trump's phone is still a security leak...
Reply #112 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 11:20am
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I'd say we've both made our case.  I'd also say that mine is a reasonable description of what's going on, if not completely airtight.  I'd say your refutation is much more of a stretch than what I presented -- ascribing to Trump a level of cyber-security conscientiousness that he hasn't displayed in other arenas.  And of course, I'd say that you will disagree with me in all of this.

We can let our vast audience decide for themselves, at this point.
  

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Re: Trump's phone is still a security leak...
Reply #113 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 11:24am
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Wadsworth wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 8:31am:
What is it about "not in use" don't you understand?


I understand just fine, it's simply not relevant right now. That's because you have yet to show anything confirming it really was a personal device to begin with.
  
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Re: Trump's phone is still a security leak...
Reply #114 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 11:29am
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forgotten centrist wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 8:57am:
Weren't you just objecting to speculation?


Yes, there it was.  Only in this case it is driven by photographic evidence.  Trump is using the same Galaxy he has been using for at least a couple of years now.


He won't even go that far.  Why?  Because his story would unravel almost immediately.  He goes around in public with his phones -- people can see them and take pictures of them (as above).  If he puts secure documents down on a dining table in a semi-public area with dozens of people with cameras surrounding him (as at this dinner with Abe), he won't give a squat when people take note of his cellular hardware.

And a Galaxy that was last updated two years ago ain't gonna be made secure.  By anybody.


Your own source said it was unclear as to whether it was a personal device.
« Last Edit: Feb 15th, 2017 at 12:32pm by glen65 »  
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Re: Trump's phone is still a security leak...
Reply #115 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 1:00pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 11:20am:
I'd say we've both made our case. I'd also say that mine is a reasonable description of what's going on, if not completely airtight.  I'd say your refutation is much more of a stretch than what I presented -- ascribing to Trump a level of cyber-security conscientiousness that he hasn't displayed in other arenas.  And of course, I'd say that you will disagree with me in all of this.

We can let our vast audience decide for themselves, at this point.


You started this thread with something which has not even been confirmed. You cited a source who said themselves it was unclear if he was using a personal device. Yet you had no problem presenting it as though it had already been established as fact. You nor anyone else here has presented a thing to push what you said about the phone he was carrying in the op, beyond the realm of speculation or opinion to something which was confirmed as fact. 
  
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Re: Trump's phone is still a security leak...
Reply #116 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 2:18pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 10:09am:
We know that his tweets come from at least 2 different devices.


I haven't been following this thread very closely, so maybe this has been answered, but how do we know that he is the one sending those tweets from both devices?  Rather than having someone tweet for him?
  
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Re: Trump's phone is still a security leak...
Reply #117 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 2:25pm
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I have posted a preponderance of evidence.  If it looks like a duck, etc.

- he had it in January
- NYT says he kept it after his fed phone was provided
- he tweets from 2 different phones
- he tweeted right before the dinner with Abe from a galaxy
- the galaxy he had in January was from 2012, last updated 2015
- NYT says his own team objected to his keeping the phone

To me, this is a reasonable preponderance of evidence.  It is enough to merit an investigation.  He's not doing anything illegal, but he's being deeply stupid.

To you and Lomelis, we have the following:
- he might have been issued a secure galaxy and a secure iphone, in spite of the significant technical challenges that presents
- he might have insisted that they secure his 2012 galaxy, in spite of aforementioned challenges
- he might be turning his phones off, removing batteries, storing them in a fridge, etc, which seems odd. If he were of a mind to undertake such precautions, he would find it easier and more secure to just use the federal phone they gave him
- the NYT might be lying, or their sources on Trump's team might be lying

To me, these are far more difficult to believe.  The present a more fanciful speculation.

Given that he made cyber-security one of the main planks of his platform, it seems entirely reasonable that he put to rest concerns over his own personal security practices.  It would be an easy thing for him to do, and those two senators I linked to in an article can provide him a ready and secure channel with which to shut this story down.

He will not do it.
  

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Re: Trump's phone is still a security leak...
Reply #118 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 2:46pm
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- dont you think the secret service would make sure Trump's  phone is secure? - so the SS isnt doing their job? - said who?
  

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Re: Trump's phone is still a security leak...
Reply #119 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 3:23pm
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admin wrote on Feb 15th, 2017 at 2:46pm:
- dont you think the secret service would make sure Trump's  phone is secure? - so the SS isnt doing their job? - said who?


It IS their job, and they did it.  They gave him a super secure phone.  But he's also keeping his old phone (according to my preponderance of evidence).  The problem isn't that he lacks a secure phone, it's that he's still walking around with an unsecured one.  It's a walking microphone.
  

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