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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Kumbayah post (Read 1,341 times)
Freon_Bale
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Kumbayah post
Mar 13th, 2017 at 5:05pm
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I'm not much of a Kumbayah kind of guy, but looking at all these threads where one side says this and the other side says that, nothing is getting done. And more importantly, I really don't care. It's watching the people in Washington make decisions, and then bickering over whether we like them or not.

I would like to start a discourse regarding what WE want. What the ideal health care plan would be if we made it. All of us. My question to this group is very simple. Can people with such differing perspectives create a plan that we could all live with? I think it is the most American thing to try.

For me, on a philosophical level, I believe that healthcare is a right. Not crazy healthcare. Not keep-you-alive-for-two-more-months-when-you-are-97 healthcare, but basic healthcare. Break an arm? Having a baby? Get a cold? These are all things that all Americans should have a right to. Want to stay alive for those last two months? Buy an insurance plan. So in this one area, I guess I would go socialist, though I have never considered myself one, and anything beyond basic would be private insurance.

Abortions? I am not bothered by them, but others are, so let's talk about it.

Paying for 'lazy' people? If it's basic healtcare, I am not bothered by it, but am willing to talk about it.

Please discuss, or don't, and this awesome country will continue going to shit. I am not leaving, and neither are you, so shut up and let's get to work.
  
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Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #1 - Mar 13th, 2017 at 6:56pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on Mar 13th, 2017 at 5:05pm:
I'm not much of a Kumbayah kind of guy, but looking at all these threads where one side says this and the other side says that, nothing is getting done. And more importantly, I really don't care. It's watching the people in Washington make decisions, and then bickering over whether we like them or not.

I would like to start a discourse regarding what WE want. What the ideal health care plan would be if we made it. All of us. My question to this group is very simple. Can people with such differing perspectives create a plan that we could all live with? I think it is the most American thing to try.

For me, on a philosophical level, I believe that healthcare is a right. Not crazy healthcare. Not keep-you-alive-for-two-more-months-when-you-are-97 healthcare, but basic healthcare. Break an arm? Having a baby? Get a cold? These are all things that all Americans should have a right to. Want to stay alive for those last two months? Buy an insurance plan. So in this one area, I guess I would go socialist, though I have never considered myself one, and anything beyond basic would be private insurance.

Abortions? I am not bothered by them, but others are, so let's talk about it.

Paying for 'lazy' people? If it's basic healtcare, I am not bothered by it, but am willing to talk about it.

Please discuss, or don't, and this awesome country will continue going to shit. I am not leaving, and neither are you, so shut up and let's get to work.


There's a tendency for some to call everything they WANT a "right".  There is no such right.  Healthcare is available only because people spend long years studying to become doctors, and medical companies spend decades and billions of dollars to develop cures.  Saying it's your "right" make these people your slaves, and also taxpayers if you expect to get it without paying for it.  Your rights are set forth in the Bill of Rights.  When it come to healthcare, you have a RIGHT to NOTHING.
  
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Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #2 - Mar 13th, 2017 at 11:16pm
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patrick2 wrote on Mar 13th, 2017 at 6:56pm:
There's a tendency for some to call everything they WANT a "right".  There is no such right.  Healthcare is available only because people spend long years studying to become doctors, and medical companies spend decades and billions of dollars to develop cures.  Saying it's your "right" make these people your slaves, and also taxpayers if you expect to get it without paying for it.  Your rights are set forth in the Bill of Rights.  When it come to healthcare, you have a RIGHT to NOTHING.


Thank you very much for responding.

Ok great, that is a starting point. You are saying that besides the bill of rights, there are no other rights we should allow. What about the right to clean water? Or the right to have power plumbed to your home? Or the right not to be turned away from a hospital if you are injured? The water is mandated by the federal government and paid for both by taxes and our monthly bill. Power companies have to plumb power to your home, even if you build it in the middle of nowhere. That is a law not specified in the bill of rights, yet a right nonetheless. Who do you think pays for that? And if you were shot, should the hospital turn you away because you are not in their system? That's also a right.

Maybe the bill of rights is a metaphor for the basic things people need to live. When I call it a right, I am not being literal. I am not saying it is written somewhere specifically. I am saying that I acknowledge that for basic happiness, for basic survival in the U.S., it is a fundamental necessity.

Basic healthcare is a fundamental necessity. This is just my opinion.
  
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Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #3 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 1:26am
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Freon_Bale wrote on Mar 13th, 2017 at 11:16pm:
Thank you very much for responding.

Ok great, that is a starting point. You are saying that besides the bill of rights, there are no other rights we should allow. What about the right to clean water? Or the right to have power plumbed to your home? Or the right not to be turned away from a hospital if you are injured? The water is mandated by the federal government and paid for both by taxes and our monthly bill. Power companies have to plumb power to your home, even if you build it in the middle of nowhere. That is a law not specified in the bill of rights, yet a right nonetheless. Who do you think pays for that? And if you were shot, should the hospital turn you away because you are not in their system? That's also a right.

Maybe the bill of rights is a metaphor for the basic things people need to live. When I call it a right, I am not being literal. I am not saying it is written somewhere specifically. I am saying that I acknowledge that for basic happiness, for basic survival in the U.S., it is a fundamental necessity.

Basic healthcare is a fundamental necessity. This is just my opinion.


I agree with that and so did Ronald Reagan when he signed the EMTALA bill making it illegal for any medical services provider to turn away emergent patients or women in labor.  Reagan wasn't all bad in that regard, just mostly bad.
  

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Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #4 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 2:47am
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Freon_Bale wrote on Mar 13th, 2017 at 5:05pm:
I'm not much of a Kumbayah kind of guy, but looking at all these threads where one side says this and the other side says that, nothing is getting done. And more importantly, I really don't care. It's watching the people in Washington make decisions, and then bickering over whether we like them or not.

I would like to start a discourse regarding what WE want. What the ideal health care plan would be if we made it. All of us. My question to this group is very simple. Can people with such differing perspectives create a plan that we could all live with? I think it is the most American thing to try.

For me, on a philosophical level, I believe that healthcare is a right. Not crazy healthcare. Not keep-you-alive-for-two-more-months-when-you-are-97 healthcare, but basic healthcare. Break an arm? Having a baby? Get a cold? These are all things that all Americans should have a right to. Want to stay alive for those last two months? Buy an insurance plan. So in this one area, I guess I would go socialist, though I have never considered myself one, and anything beyond basic would be private insurance.

Abortions? I am not bothered by them, but others are, so let's talk about it.

Paying for 'lazy' people? If it's basic healtcare, I am not bothered by it, but am willing to talk about it.

Please discuss, or don't, and this awesome country will continue going to shit. I am not leaving, and neither are you, so shut up and let's get to work.


I mostly agree with your post, however, your example SUCKS. One day I hope to be 97 and want to live even more than 2 months.

Nox
  

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Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #5 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 2:54am
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Every American has access to health care; whether they can afford it or not is another story. If you can't afford to pay for your health plan, why should I be forced to help you out?

I gave a scenario in another thread: a 400-pound lazy bum refuses to work and is happy to leech off society. Then he develops a heart ailment that requires emergency treatment. By choice, he doesn't have any health plan.

Give me one good reason why my tax dollars should be used to help this bum?
  


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Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #6 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 4:12am
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Freon_Bale wrote on Mar 13th, 2017 at 11:16pm:
Thank you very much for responding.

Ok great, that is a starting point. You are saying that besides the bill of rights, there are no other rights we should allow. What about the right to clean water? Or the right to have power plumbed to your home? Or the right not to be turned away from a hospital if you are injured? The water is mandated by the federal government and paid for both by taxes and our monthly bill. Power companies have to plumb power to your home, even if you build it in the middle of nowhere. That is a law not specified in the bill of rights, yet a right nonetheless. Who do you think pays for that? And if you were shot, should the hospital turn you away because you are not in their system? That's also a right.

Maybe the bill of rights is a metaphor for the basic things people need to live. When I call it a right, I am not being literal. I am not saying it is written somewhere specifically. I am saying that I acknowledge that for basic happiness, for basic survival in the U.S., it is a fundamental necessity.

Basic healthcare is a fundamental necessity. This is just my opinion.


How about the right to a good set of clothes?  Smiley  The right to a prime rib dinner?  The right to entertainment on TV?  Cheesy  The right to a trip to Las Vegas?   Cheesy  The right to a trip to the moon?  Grin
  
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Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #7 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 6:04am
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Freon_Bale wrote on Mar 13th, 2017 at 5:05pm:
I'm not much of a Kumbayah kind of guy, but looking at all these threads where one side says this and the other side says that, nothing is getting done. And more importantly, I really don't care. It's watching the people in Washington make decisions, and then bickering over whether we like them or not.

I would like to start a discourse regarding what WE want. What the ideal health care plan would be if we made it. All of us. My question to this group is very simple. Can people with such differing perspectives create a plan that we could all live with? I think it is the most American thing to try.

For me, on a philosophical level, I believe that healthcare is a right. Not crazy healthcare. Not keep-you-alive-for-two-more-months-when-you-are-97 healthcare, but basic healthcare. Break an arm? Having a baby? Get a cold? These are all things that all Americans should have a right to. Want to stay alive for those last two months? Buy an insurance plan. So in this one area, I guess I would go socialist, though I have never considered myself one, and anything beyond basic would be private insurance.

Abortions? I am not bothered by them, but others are, so let's talk about it.

Paying for 'lazy' people? If it's basic healtcare, I am not bothered by it, but am willing to talk about it.

Please discuss, or don't, and this awesome country will continue going to shit. I am not leaving, and neither are you, so shut up and let's get to work.


I'm confused.  How are we supposed to "shut up" and still take part in the discussion?

As for me, I don't agree that we are guaranteed free health care.  In fact, nothing is free, ever.  There is always a price that someone has to pay and that price is disguised as taxes or fees.  The rights that the citizens of the U.S. are guaranteed are specifically written in our Bill of Rights.  They are named that for a specific reason.  Try to figure it out on your own, cuz I was told to "shut up".   Grin

BTW, my goal in life is to live past the age of 97 and to do it as healthfully as I can.  Be warned.   Grin Grin
  
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Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #8 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 6:17am
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crepe05 wrote on Mar 14th, 2017 at 6:04am:
I'm confused.  How are we supposed to "shut up" and still take part in the discussion?

As for me, I don't agree that we are guaranteed free health care.  In fact, nothing is free, ever.  There is always a price that someone has to pay and that price is disguised as taxes or fees.  The rights that the citizens of the U.S. are guaranteed are specifically written in our Bill of Rights.  They are named that for a specific reason.  Try to figure it out on your own, cuz I was told to "shut up".   Grin

BTW, my goal in life is to live past the age of 97 and to do it as healthfully as I can.  Be warned.   Grin Grin


The bill of rights has been encoded into our constitution which has been amended many times. 

What does Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness mean to you?  For some, it's riding an unnecessarily loud motorcycle, shooting guns and being fat.  For others, it's the quiet contemplation next to a quiet mountain stream as you stare down the barrel of your rifle preparing to shoot a stupid squirrel dead.

The constitution should be seen as a living breathing document that gags and coughs spastically on it's death bed. 
  

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Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #9 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 6:20am
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Freon_Bale wrote on Mar 13th, 2017 at 11:16pm:
Thank you very much for responding.

Ok great, that is a starting point. You are saying that besides the bill of rights, there are no other rights we should allow. What about the right to clean water? Or the right to have power plumbed to your home? Or the right not to be turned away from a hospital if you are injured? The water is mandated by the federal government and paid for both by taxes and our monthly bill. Power companies have to plumb power to your home, even if you build it in the middle of nowhere. That is a law not specified in the bill of rights, yet a right nonetheless. Who do you think pays for that? And if you were shot, should the hospital turn you away because you are not in their system? That's also a right.

Maybe the bill of rights is a metaphor for the basic things people need to live. When I call it a right, I am not being literal. I am not saying it is written somewhere specifically. I am saying that I acknowledge that for basic happiness, for basic survival in the U.S., it is a fundamental necessity.

Basic healthcare is a fundamental necessity. This is just my opinion.

If you read the DOI it simply clarifies what are our God given rights that man can not take from us.  Healthcare is not a God given right, it's a desire of a product, but nothing more.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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