Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Kumbayah post
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 10 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Kumbayah post (Read 2,090 times)
crepe05
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 22,319
Location: Louisiana
Joined: Feb 25th, 2012
Gender: Female
Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #10 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 7:53am
Print Post  
Capt. Obvious B.S.C. wrote on Mar 14th, 2017 at 6:17am:
The bill of rights has been encoded into our constitution which has been amended many times. 

What does Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness mean to you?  For some, it's riding an unnecessarily loud motorcycle, shooting guns and being fat.  For others, it's the quiet contemplation next to a quiet mountain stream as you stare down the barrel of your rifle preparing to shoot a stupid squirrel dead.

The constitution should be seen as a living breathing document that gags and coughs spastically on it's death bed. 


Of course it's been amended many times, and still it does not give us the "right" to free health care.  If you want that, start a drive to add an amendment guaranteeing us that right.  However, don't bother asking me to sign it. 

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to me means personal independence from the govt telling me what to do or not to do.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
walkstall
Hardhat
Conservative Caucus
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

WYSIWYG

Posts: 13,958
Location: Washington State
Joined: Jun 24th, 2003
Gender: Male
Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #11 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 8:21am
Print Post  
crepe05 wrote on Mar 14th, 2017 at 6:04am:
I'm confused.  How are we supposed to "shut up" and still take part in the discussion?

As for me, I don't agree that we are guaranteed free health care.  In fact, nothing is free, ever.  There is always a price that someone has to pay and that price is disguised as taxes or fees.  The rights that the citizens of the U.S. are guaranteed are specifically written in our Bill of Rights.  They are named that for a specific reason.  Try to figure it out on your own, cuz I was told to "shut up".   Grin

BTW, my goal in life is to live past the age of 97 and to do it as healthfully as I can.  Be warned.   Grin Grin


LOL  I think we will make it young lady.   Smiley   

They said I would be bored after working 65 years if I stopped working.  I just don't have the time to be bored.   Grin
  

Only a fool think we can give free health care and not have our premiums skyrocket every year.
"Where is the $2,500 in savings Democrats and Obama promised me?" 

Obama on FBI: We Don't Operate on Innuendo.  LOL 
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
billy.pilgrim
LNF House Leader
LNF Bunker
****
Offline


Posts: 9,442
Location: gulf coast
Joined: Jun 25th, 2014
Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #12 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 9:10am
Print Post  
crepe05 wrote on Mar 14th, 2017 at 7:53am:
Of course it's been amended many times, and still it does not give us the "right" to free health care.  If you want that, start a drive to add an amendment guaranteeing us that right.  However, don't bother asking me to sign it. 

Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to me means personal independence from the govt telling me what to do or not to do.



Like the no gubberment involved medicare you once claimed to have
  

the wis-dum of acrhie
"I am sure Trump is like me."
"There is no capitalism under Obama’s rule. He is a fu8&^ communist."
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Freon_Bale
LNF Staffer2
**
Offline

Courage is fearing something,
then doing it anyway

Posts: 71
Joined: Feb 16th, 2017
Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #13 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 10:24am
Print Post  
Jasmine wrote on Mar 14th, 2017 at 2:54am:
Give me one good reason why my tax dollars should be used to help this bum?


I think your question gets to the core of it. Why should we pay for someone else's laziness. You work hard, so do I. They should have to work hard too, to get the benefits of society, right?

Let me ask you this. If we were at war, and our country and way of life were in jeopardy, would you fight for it? I would, and collectively many would as well. But would we be fighting to protect just our little piece of America, or the whole darn thing? Would we be fighting just for those we agree with, or for the right for those who disagree to coexist with us? The point is that we take care of our own. Every family has bums in it, but they are still family.

And if that argument does not sit well with you, I understand, but there is also a pragmatic reason. Cost. Consolidating basic healthcare could (not necessarily, will) decrease costs by having a larger bargaining entity. Capitalist healthcare is awesome in its ability to be leading edge, but terrible in terms of keeping costs down. That is why I am asking this group to list what they want in a system where everyone does NOT get what they want. A compromise we can all live with.

If anyone is totally happy with our plan, then compromise has not occurred.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
forgotten centrist
LNF Speaker
*****
Offline

bring back the middle
class!

Posts: 10,378
Joined: Sep 29th, 2004
Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #14 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 10:42am
Print Post  
Health insurance is necessary for everyone, because everyone will need healthcare -- now, later, for themselves, for their family.  It's such a stark, inelastic demand curve that people will go bankrupt and sell their homes to pay for it.

Healthcare markets are fixed.  There is no price list published at any hospital or doctors office.  Insurers negotiate deals and keep the terms secret.  Providers do the same.  And efforts at publicly rating providers, so people can try to make informed deccisions, are consistently shot down.

When strong inelastic demand meets opaque price-fixed supply, prices shoot up.  That's what was happening before obamacare, and that's what propelled the passage of obamacare.  Obamacare took a half-step toward rationalizing the marketplace by better enabling private plan markets, and shining some light on pricing and performance ratings.  As a result, the rate of health cost inflation dropped significantly.

The best course would be to take note of the fact that every other advanced economy has gone with a single payer option (Medicare for all), combined with private markets to extend it.  They all get better outcomes, and they all pay far less than we do for it.

Short of that, the best course here would be to require insurers and providers to publish all rates, pricing, and performance data, and basically enable a transparent market.

Trumpcare, of course, does none of that.
  

Nominated for 2016...
- Liberal of the Year
- Conservative of the Year
- Centrist of the Year
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
billy.pilgrim
LNF House Leader
LNF Bunker
****
Offline


Posts: 9,442
Location: gulf coast
Joined: Jun 25th, 2014
Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #15 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 10:52am
Print Post  
Freon_Bale wrote on Mar 14th, 2017 at 10:24am:
I think your question gets to the core of it. Why should we pay for someone else's laziness. You work hard, so do I. They should have to work hard too, to get the benefits of society, right?

Let me ask you this. If we were at war, and our country and way of life were in jeopardy, would you fight for it? I would, and collectively many would as well. But would we be fighting to protect just our little piece of America, or the whole darn thing? Would we be fighting just for those we agree with, or for the right for those who disagree to coexist with us? The point is that we take care of our own. Every family has bums in it, but they are still family.

And if that argument does not sit well with you, I understand, but there is also a pragmatic reason. Cost. Consolidating basic healthcare could (not necessarily, will) decrease costs by having a larger bargaining entity. Capitalist healthcare is awesome in its ability to be leading edge, but terrible in terms of keeping costs down. That is why I am asking this group to list what they want in a system where everyone does NOT get what they want. A compromise we can all live with.

If anyone is totally happy with our plan, then compromise has not occurred.



We all in the middle class pay in about 3% of our payroll type income to Medicare to provide a system for the sickest group among us. The recipient pays about $200/month for 80% coverage. Raise that to 5 or 6% and seems like we could pay for the healthy younger crowd.
Have the rich and the crowd living off great grandpa's stocks and bonds chip in what the middle class pays and we could reduce the percentage further.
Remove the poison pills of artificially high drug prices and it becomes more reasonable.

80% seems like a good place to eliminate the ones who want too much
  

the wis-dum of acrhie
"I am sure Trump is like me."
"There is no capitalism under Obama’s rule. He is a fu8&^ communist."
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Wadsworth
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 21,842
Joined: Jul 5th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #16 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 11:19am
Print Post  
Freon_Bale wrote on Mar 13th, 2017 at 5:05pm:
I'm not much of a Kumbayah kind of guy, but looking at all these threads where one side says this and the other side says that, nothing is getting done. And more importantly, I really don't care. It's watching the people in Washington make decisions, and then bickering over whether we like them or not.

I would like to start a discourse regarding what WE want. What the ideal health care plan would be if we made it. All of us. My question to this group is very simple. Can people with such differing perspectives create a plan that we could all live with? I think it is the most American thing to try.

For me, on a philosophical level, I believe that healthcare is a right. Not crazy healthcare. Not keep-you-alive-for-two-more-months-when-you-are-97 healthcare, but basic healthcare. Break an arm? Having a baby? Get a cold? These are all things that all Americans should have a right to. Want to stay alive for those last two months? Buy an insurance plan. So in this one area, I guess I would go socialist, though I have never considered myself one, and anything beyond basic would be private insurance.

Abortions? I am not bothered by them, but others are, so let's talk about it.

Paying for 'lazy' people? If it's basic healtcare, I am not bothered by it, but am willing to talk about it.

Please discuss, or don't, and this awesome country will continue going to shit. I am not leaving, and neither are you, so shut up and let's get to work.

Some people want to hate just for the sake of hating.  I too am not bothered about people getting abortions or helping the poor. What I want our country to do is to deal with out falling infrastructure and insure that our children get a proper education.
  

"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H. L. Mencken, July 26, 1920
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Freon_Bale
LNF Staffer2
**
Offline

Courage is fearing something,
then doing it anyway

Posts: 71
Joined: Feb 16th, 2017
Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #17 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 11:22am
Print Post  
Wadsworth wrote on Mar 14th, 2017 at 11:19am:
Some people want to hate just for the sake of hating.


This might be so, but really it is irrelevant. They are not leaving, and neither are we. We need to get something done, and that means we need their input as much as our own. Why they feel the way they do is none of our business. All that matters is moving things toward a system we can all live with.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Wadsworth
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline


Posts: 21,842
Joined: Jul 5th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #18 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 11:42am
Print Post  
Freon_Bale wrote on Mar 14th, 2017 at 11:22am:
This might be so, but really it is irrelevant. They are not leaving, and neither are we. We need to get something done, and that means we need their input as much as our own. Why they feel the way they do is none of our business. All that matters is moving things toward a system we can all live with.

When people act on their feelings, it does affect us all.  When you try to prevent gays from marrying, prevent people from having abortion and discriminate because you don't like the way some one looks, who they worship or where they came from, it affects all of us.
  

"On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
H. L. Mencken, July 26, 1920
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Fiddler
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

Trolls exterminated while
you wait.

Posts: 18,102
Joined: Jan 28th, 2014
Gender: Male
Re: Kumbayah post
Reply #19 - Mar 14th, 2017 at 11:55am
Print Post  
forgotten centrist wrote on Mar 14th, 2017 at 10:42am:
Health insurance is necessary for everyone, because everyone will need healthcare -- now, later, for themselves, for their family.  It's such a stark, inelastic demand curve that people will go bankrupt and sell their homes to pay for it.

Healthcare markets are fixed.  There is no price list published at any hospital or doctors office.  Insurers negotiate deals and keep the terms secret.  Providers do the same.  And efforts at publicly rating providers, so people can try to make informed deccisions, are consistently shot down.

When strong inelastic demand meets opaque price-fixed supply, prices shoot up.  That's what was happening before obamacare, and that's what propelled the passage of obamacare.  Obamacare took a half-step toward rationalizing the marketplace by better enabling private plan markets, and shining some light on pricing and performance ratings.  As a result, the rate of health cost inflation dropped significantly.

The best course would be to take note of the fact that every other advanced economy has gone with a single payer option (Medicare for all), combined with private markets to extend it.  They all get better outcomes, and they all pay far less than we do for it.

Short of that, the best course here would be to require insurers and providers to publish all rates, pricing, and performance data, and basically enable a transparent market.

Trumpcare, of course, does none of that.




Well said.. ...
  

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 10
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Kumbayah post

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules