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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 49 years ago kill anything that moves or breathes (Read 1,230 times)
billy.pilgrim
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49 years ago kill anything that moves or breathes
Mar 16th, 2017 at 10:16am
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Why do we keep fighting against other peoples in their fight for independence from colonial and dictatorial powers? Especially when their reaction to our authoritarian/imperial actions always turns and bites us in the ass.

And more so for the damage it does to our men and women in uniform when we put them in untenable situations, give them orders no one should ever get and expect them to come home fresh as a daisy ready for some apple pie and a ball game.
Vietnam was like that. My Lai was like that. The hundreds of other My Lai like events were like that.
And more amazing than no lessons learned is the defense of what was done – the belief that what we did was right – the assertion that My Lai was an isolated event – the idea that we could have won a war against a people who had been fighting for their independence from the Chinese, the French, the Japanese, the French Nazi collaborators, and the French again for the better part of a hundred years.

On March 16, 1968 I was soon to graduate high school. A big part of me was excited about the prospects of going to Vietnam to kill commie gooks. Most of us felt that way. Realizing that it could have been us is why the anti-war movement did not for the most part vilify the soldier, but did vilify the war and those who promoted it. Then as now the right lied because they didn’t have truth. There are zero recorded or substantiated instances of protesters spitting on veterans or solders – zero. There are many instances of right wing war supporters spitting on protesters, including veterans who protested the war, yet the myth continues.

Partly due to the revelation of My Lai, the napalm photos and of course the influence of people around me it took a little over a year before I wanted no part of what we wrongly called Nixon’s war.

On March 16, 1968 a mass murder of 504 women, children, infants and old people occurred in and around the small village of My Lai by soldiers of Charlie Company of the 1st Battalion, 20th Infantry regiment, 11th Brigade. Many of the women were gang raped and bodies were militated during this almost casual massacre.

My Lai did serve the purpose of bringing home to the American people what was going on in Vietnam and ultimately ending the war, but at a cost to the ones who spoke the truth then as it still does even now. 

From wiki - Independent investigative journalist Seymour Hersh, after extensive conversations with Calley, broke the Mỹ Lai story on November 12, 1969, on the Associated Press wire service;[44] on November 20, Time, Life and Newsweek magazines all covered the story, and CBS televised an interview with Paul Meadlo, a soldier in Calley's unit during the massacre. The Plain Dealer (Cleveland, Ohio) published explicit photographs of dead villagers killed at Mỹ Lai.


  

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Re: 49 years ago kill anything that moves or breathes
Reply #1 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 12:02pm
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I have my own not so fond memories of that specific time.  In 1968, I was still in Junior High School in Cleveland Ohio.  That was the year of "Flower Power" and "Laugh In" and "Say it loud, I'm Black and I'm proud".  Growing up on a steady diet of stories from WWII veterans that hung out with my father, I knew we were the good guys.  We beat the Japs.  We beat the Krauts.  Every WWII movie I saw showed how we won.  Sgt Saunders won every week on TV in "Combat" and General Savage bombed the Jerries on "Twelve O'Clock High".  WE were the good guys.  Until then...  When I saw the photos of the kids running away from the napalm WE dropped and read about My Lai, I wondered "How can this happen?".  When did we become the bad guys?  Worse, I worried.  I worried that I would get drafted and have to go.  As the sixties became the seventies, I worried more.  As things happened, the draft and war ended before I had to go.  By then, I was as anti-military as anyone could be.  Time changed my thoughts.

Greg
  

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Re: 49 years ago kill anything that moves or breathes
Reply #2 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 12:56pm
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Who are we fighting in their fight against colonial powers??  Roll Eyes
  
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billy.pilgrim
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Re: 49 years ago kill anything that moves or breathes
Reply #3 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 1:49pm
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patrick2 wrote on Mar 16th, 2017 at 12:56pm:
Who are we fighting in their fight against colonial powers??  Roll Eyes

do you really know so little?

we fought the people of Vietnam in their war for independence, 1st we aided the French who got their asses kicked, then we propped up the dictator/asshole Diem in his refusal to have free and fair elections to reunite the country – which led to our idiotic war against the people of Vietnam – north and south 


http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/l/lagguth-vietnam.html



By underwriting more than 75 percent of France's military expenses, the United States had spent as much as $2 billion to keep the French in Indochina.



it is also interesting how much we worked together during WW2 against the Japanese and the French Nazi collaborators



As Ho set about building his nation, he counted on friendships he had forged within the OSS. He wrote to one OSS agent: "The war is finished. It is good for everybody. I feel only sorry that all our American friends have to leave us so soon."
Dean Rusk had never met Ho Chi Minh, but he had been one of the Americans to aid Ho against the Japanese. As a deputy to General Joseph Stilwell in the China-Burma-India theater, Rusk authorized an air drop of U.S. arms and cigarettes to Ho's guerrillas. At the time, Rusk didn't care whether Ho was a nationalist or a Communist so long as he was trying to kill Japanese. And OSS agents like Patti were reporting enthusiastically about the Vietminh.
  

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Re: 49 years ago kill anything that moves or breathes
Reply #4 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 4:48pm
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They killed everything. They killed everything that moved.
Advancing in small squads, the men of the unit shot chickens as they scurried about, pigs as they bolted and cows and water buffalo lowing among the thatch-roofed houses. They gunned down old men sitting in their homes and children as they ran for cover. They tossed grenades into homes without even bothering to look inside. An officer grabbed a woman by the hair and shot her point-blank with a pistol. A woman who came out of her home with a baby in her arms was shot down on the spot. As the tiny child hit the ground, another GI opened up on the infant with his M-16 automatic rifle.
Over four hours, members of Charlie Company methodically slaughtered more than 500 unarmed victims, killing some in ones and twos, others in small groups, and collecting many more in a drainage ditch that would become an infamous killing ground.
They faced no opposition. They even took a quiet break to eat lunch in the midst of the carnage. Along the way, they also raped women and young girls, mutilated the dead, systematically burned homes and fouled the area’s drinking water.”
The press reported what they were told
There were scores of witnesses on the ground and still more overhead, American officers and helicopter crewmen perfectly capable of seeing the growing piles of civilian bodies. Yet when the military released the first news of the assault, it was portrayed as a victory over a formidable enemy force, a legitimate battle in which 128 enemy troops were killed without the loss of a single American life. In a routine congratulatory telegram, Gen. William Westmoreland, the commander of US forces in Vietnam, lauded the “heavy blows” inflicted on the enemy. His protégé, the commander of the Americal Division, added a special note praising Charlie Company’s “aggressiveness.”
  

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Re: 49 years ago kill anything that moves or breathes
Reply #5 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 5:38pm
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There were heroes that day

Hugh Thompson Jr. and crew

From npr
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5133444

Early in the morning of March 16, 1968, Thompson, door-gunner Lawrence Colburn and crew chief Glenn Andreotta came upon U.S. ground troops killing Vietnamese civilians in and around the village of My Lai.
They landed the helicopter in the line of fire between American troops and fleeing Vietnamese civilians and pointed their own guns at the U.S. soldiers to prevent more killings.
Colburn and Andreotta had provided cover for Thompson as he went forward to confront the leader of the U.S. forces. Thompson later coaxed civilians out of a bunker so they could be evacuated, and then landed his helicopter again to pick up a wounded child they transported to a hospital. Their efforts led to the cease-fire order at My Lai.
In 1998, the Army honored the three men with the prestigious Soldier's Medal, the highest award for bravery not involving conflict with an enemy. It was a posthumous award for Andreotta, who had been killed in battle three weeks after My Lai.


"It was the ability to do the right thing even at the risk of their personal safety that guided these soldiers to do what they did," Army Maj. Gen. Michael Ackerman said at the 1998 ceremony. The three "set the standard for all soldiers to follow."
Lt. William L. Calley, a platoon leader, was convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment for his role in the killings, but served just three years under house arrest when then-President Nixon reduced his sentence.



From wiki

"Then we saw a young girl about twenty years old lying on the grass. We could see that she was unarmed and wounded in the chest. We marked her with smoke because we saw a squad not too far away. The smoke was green, meaning it's safe to approach. Red would have meant the opposite. We were hovering six feet off the ground not more than twenty feet away when Captain Medina came over, kicked her, stepped back, and finished her off. He did it right in front of us. When we saw Medina do that, it clicked. It was our guys doing the killing."[8]
Immediately after the execution, Thompson discovered the irrigation ditch full of Calley's victims. Thompson then radioed a message to accompanying gunships and Task Force Barker headquarters, "It looks to me like there's an awful lot of unnecessary killing going on down there. Something ain't right about this. There's bodies everywhere. There's a ditch full of bodies that we saw. There's something wrong here."[2]:75 Thompson spotted movement in the irrigation ditch, indicating that there were civilians alive in it. He immediately landed to assist the victims. Lieutenant Calley approached Thompson and the two exchanged an uneasy conversation.[2]:77

Thompson: What's going on here, Lieutenant?
Calley: This is my business.
Thompson: What is this? Who are these people?
Calley: Just following orders.
Thompson: Orders? Whose orders?
Calley: Just following...
Thompson: But, these are human beings, unarmed civilians, sir.
Calley: Look Thompson, this is my show. I'm in charge here. It ain't your concern.
Thompson: Yeah, great job.
Calley: You better get back in that chopper and mind your own business.
Thompson: You ain't heard the last of this!
As Thompson was speaking to Calley, Calley's subordinate, Sergeant David Mitchell, fired into the irrigation ditch, killing any civilians still moving.[2]:78 Thompson and his crew, in disbelief and shock, returned to their helicopter and began searching for civilians they could save. They spotted a group of women, children, and old men in the northeast corner of the village fleeing from advancing soldiers from the 2nd Platoon, Company C. Immediately realizing that the soldiers intended to murder the Vietnamese civilians, Thompson landed his helicopter between the advancing ground unit and the villagers.[2]:79 He turned to Colburn and Andreotta and told them he would shoot the men in the 2nd Platoon if they attempted to kill any of the fleeing civilians.[2]:81 While Colburn and Andreotta focused their guns on the 2nd Platoon, Thompson located as many civilians as he could, persuaded them to follow him to safer location, and ensured their evacuation with the help of two UH-1 Huey pilots he was friends with.[4]:138–139



Three U.S. servicemen who had tried to halt the massacre and protect the wounded were initially denounced by several U.S. Congressmen as traitors in an attempt to cover up the massacre. They received hate mail and death threats and found mutilated animals on their doorsteps. The three were later widely praised and decorated by the army for their heroic actions.[8]
  

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Limey
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Re: 49 years ago kill anything that moves or breathes
Reply #6 - Mar 16th, 2017 at 9:07pm
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So it goes.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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billy.pilgrim
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Re: 49 years ago kill anything that moves or breathes
Reply #7 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 7:35am
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Limey wrote on Mar 16th, 2017 at 9:07pm:
So it goes.


Poo-tee-weet



or should it be "caw" says the crow as it plucks an eyeball from an infant's head


« Last Edit: Mar 17th, 2017 at 9:40am by billy.pilgrim »  

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Re: 49 years ago kill anything that moves or breathes
Reply #8 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 1:48pm
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Who cares? I would have nuked them the first day and cut the war short and saved thousands of American military lives. You fu(*&n with us, you pay.  Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley Smiley
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Re: 49 years ago kill anything that moves or breathes
Reply #9 - Mar 17th, 2017 at 3:17pm
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billy.pilgrim wrote on Mar 16th, 2017 at 10:16am:
There are zero recorded or substantiated instances of protesters spitting on veterans or solders – zero. There are many instances of right wing war supporters spitting on protesters, including veterans who protested the war, yet the myth continues.


FCUK YOU SKIPPY.

I am the recipient of hippy saliva on greater than one occasion. Had I broken those bastards necks ... I would have been the one to go jail.

It would be nice if for once you actually knew what you were talking about.

btw ... FCUK YOU SKIPPY.

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