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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Where do I go to find the roots of liberal morality? (Read 4,225 times)
BowHunter
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Re: Where do I go to find the roots of liberal morality?
Reply #20 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 7:47am
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There is nothing novel about the bible, it either  preconizes measures that have been known centuries even millennia before it's inception or it builds on superstitions from other more ancient religions. Plus it contains passages that are nearly insane, like the flood for instance, that are as anti-scientific as imaginable. There were giant cave-sloths in south America that moved like a tenth of a mile in a day! Can you imagine how long it would take for a couple of them to cover the distance between there and the supposed location of the ark, somewhere around the Mediterranean? THOUSANDS OF YEARS!

You get that, believer?
  

Non sequitur:

The Hamster is at it Again wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Re: Where do I go to find the roots of liberal morality?
Reply #21 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 10:55am
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Seawolf wrote on Apr 19th, 2017 at 4:35pm:
There is, but you dismiss it or try to marginalize, we have history supporting scripture and scripture supporting history but that too is dismissed. 


Yes.. many ..perhaps most of the places mentioned in the bible are real. That's never really been in contention. 

Some of the events can be corroborated.  But historical places and events do not make a religion... miracles do. 

There is ZERO evidence for the miracles.. no evidence for a global flood.. no evidence for God's Plagues of Egypt.. no evidence for the resurrection of Jesus. 

Those require religious Faith. .. the belief in events for which there is no evidence.  In fact.. if there were evidence then religious Faith would not need to exist.   


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Faith is a subject you are very familiar with because you have to have faith that life sprang out of nothing and accidently created a balanced environment, despite evidence to the contrary.  This is where you put aside your critical thinking and simply hope it's true.


You're confusing faith .. faith that my car will crank.. with religious Faith.. belief without evidence..

I have faith that my car will crank because the evidence I have says that it has cranked flawlessly for months..

I don't not have Faith that life and the universe sprang from nothing.. however I do have faith that it wasn't a deity that spoke these into existence because the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

I understand that it's convenient for you to swap 'faith' and 'Faith' at will but it really does you a disservice to do so.  People come away with a sense that you're being purposefully dishonest.

  
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Re: Where do I go to find the roots of liberal morality?
Reply #22 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 1:11pm
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Fiddler wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 10:55am:
Yes.. many ..perhaps most of the places mentioned in the bible are real. That's never really been in contention. 

Some of the events can be corroborated.  But historical places and events do not make a religion... miracles do. 

There is ZERO evidence for the miracles.. no evidence for a global flood.. no evidence for God's Plagues of Egypt.. no evidence for the resurrection of Jesus. 

Those require religious Faith. .. the belief in events for which there is no evidence.  In fact.. if there were evidence then religious Faith would not need to exist.   



You're confusing faith .. faith that my car will crank.. with religious Faith.. belief without evidence..

I have faith that my car will crank because the evidence I have says that it has cranked flawlessly for months..

I don't not have Faith that life and the universe sprang from nothing.. however I do have faith that it wasn't a deity that spoke these into existence because the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

I understand that it's convenient for you to swap 'faith' and 'Faith' at will but it really does you a disservice to do so.  People come away with a sense that you're being purposefully dishonest.


No you obviously can not grasp faith.  You can not show me how a simple cell can evolve into a complex cell.  It has never been seen, you can not prove that out of nothing life can evolve, it takes blind faith in science to somehow explain how it is even mathmatically possible to evolve from nothing to an advance lifeform like man, much less evey living organisim on earth and have the perfect balance to support life.  You spend an enormous amount of energy denying a Creator and zero time explaining how your theory is even remotely possible.  Time, space and matter all must exist at once to support life so how did all three come into existence at once?  How does a simple cell evolve into a complex cell? Where does the matter come from that combusted and started the chain of life?  Why are we unable to see how a new species can evolve from a different species, say a fish to a bird for example?
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Seawolf
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Re: Where do I go to find the roots of liberal morality?
Reply #23 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 1:12pm
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BowHunter wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 7:47am:
There is nothing novel about the bible, it either  preconizes measures that have been known centuries even millennia before it's inception or it builds on superstitions from other more ancient religions. Plus it contains passages that are nearly insane, like the flood for instance, that are as anti-scientific as imaginable. There were giant cave-sloths in south America that moved like a tenth of a mile in a day! Can you imagine how long it would take for a couple of them to cover the distance between there and the supposed location of the ark, somewhere around the Mediterranean? THOUSANDS OF YEARS!

You get that, believer?

Yet the questions I pose, science has no definitive answer that is substantiated.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Where do I go to find the roots of liberal morality?
Reply #24 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 1:23pm
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The funny thing is, you act as if not having an answer is a bad thing. Oh well. The even funnier thing is, I can see your god sitting up there thinking to Herself, for chrissake I gave these people the greatest gift a creator could give, a brain and reason. And they just throw it away for mindless faith.
  
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Re: Where do I go to find the roots of liberal morality?
Reply #25 - Apr 20th, 2017 at 1:41pm
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Muckster wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 1:23pm:
The funny thing is, you act as if not having an answer is a bad thing. Oh well. The even funnier thing is, I can see your god sitting up there thinking to Herself, for chrissake I gave these people the greatest gift a creator could give, a brain and reason. And they just throw it away for mindless faith.

Here to muck it up I see.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Where do I go to find the roots of liberal morality?
Reply #26 - Apr 23rd, 2017 at 2:07pm
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Seawolf wrote on Apr 20th, 2017 at 1:41pm:
Here to muck it up I see.


Perfectly valid contribution.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Re: Where do I go to find the roots of liberal morality?
Reply #27 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:59am
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Limey wrote on Apr 23rd, 2017 at 2:07pm:
Perfectly valid contribution.

Only if discussion is never your intent.  An actual discussion goes a lot further then simply making fun of one's belief.  I will entertain debate IF you can come with evidence rather then a simple denial, which is good for one post.  Behaving as an adult appears to be a challenge for some here on this forum.  I spend time researching and posting my findings, you can similarly do the same or move on after posting you don't believe.  For me, the experience is personal and irrefutable based on what I have witnessed, read and experienced.  Nothing will dissuade my faith and some realize this and respect my choice, others are not as tolerant.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: Where do I go to find the roots of liberal morality?
Reply #28 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 12:31pm
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Seawolf wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 6:59am:
Nothing will dissuade my faith ..... 



And there you have it.  A mind closed to all evidence contrary to a mythology rooted in Faith and Faith alone ..

  
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Re: Where do I go to find the roots of liberal morality?
Reply #29 - Apr 24th, 2017 at 12:36pm
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Fiddler wrote on Apr 24th, 2017 at 12:31pm:
And there you have it.  A mind closed to all evidence contrary to a mythology rooted in Faith and Faith alone ..



Because I have been convinced, from an unbeliever to a believer now of seven years. That is evidence of an open mind, on the other hand the only argument you offer up to me is to dismiss my posting that have included historians outside of the New Testament.  What you seem to be trying to do is will me to not believe and that tactic will fall flat on it's face.  I have read numerous documents, books... Before I came to this conclusion.  My point is your rebuttal is too weak and does not take into account about my conversion and how I arrive to my conclusion.  You have provided me nothing conclusive to show me there is no Creator, ridicule is certainly not going to win your argument, no more then me ridiculing your faith in evolution.
« Last Edit: Apr 24th, 2017 at 12:48pm by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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