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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What to do in Syria (Read 995 times)
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Re: What to do in Syria
Reply #60 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 11:43am
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patrick2 wrote on Apr 15th, 2017 at 4:33am:
The arms provided to the Syrian democratic forces are chickensh_t light weapons - they have no chance with them against the armor, artillery, poison gas, and air force of Assad.

They've been given armored vehicles and Congress has authorized anti-aircraft missiles for the Syrian rebels. Pretty much everything you were bitching about in your OP, but when that's pointed out to you, it's "chickensh*t".

Also, if the Syrian rebels shoot down a Russian jet with one of those missiles, what then? You have to think about the unintended consequences of some of these actions.
  
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Re: What to do in Syria
Reply #61 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 11:52am
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The Original Wally wrote on Apr 15th, 2017 at 3:24pm:
One thing which may occur is that another Alawite might be able to replace Assad, if such new Leader were acceptable to the Muslim majority population and Putin, himself.  Putin will want to retain control over his ally, Syria, but they could give Assad and his family, refuge somewhere in a villa on the Black Sea and have him leave the country and power!

We're leaving out another interested party: Iran.
  
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Re: What to do in Syria
Reply #62 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 11:58am
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patrick2 wrote on Apr 15th, 2017 at 10:58pm:
Saved ALL of east asia for democracy.

All? Where exactly are you drawing the line for East Asia? Are you not including China? Mongolia? North Korea? Etc.
  
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Re: What to do in Syria
Reply #63 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 12:02pm
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Demos wrote on Apr 17th, 2017 at 11:52am:
We're leaving out another interested party: Iran.
Iran wants to remain in good standing with Putin and whatever Putin will go along with has a whole lot of sway with the Mullahs in Tehran. Putin's goal is hegemony in the Middle East and in this regard, Iran has become Russia's proxy.  Alawites are a sect of Shia Muslims, as are Iranians, while the majority of Syrians are Sunni's. (as is ISIS).  Iran would want to maintain control of the Sunni population!

Putin is a Cold Warrior of the former Soviet Union, he doesn't want a Hot Confrontation with the United States of America.  He can save face by agreeing that Assad needs to be replaced in order to placate the Sunni Syrian majority, as long as he is allowed to go into exile (probably in Russia)
  

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Re: What to do in Syria
Reply #64 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 12:12pm
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The Original Wally wrote on Apr 17th, 2017 at 12:02pm:
Putin's goal is hegemony in the Middle East and in this regard,...

However, this is also Iran's goal.

Quote:
Iran has become Russia's proxy.

I don't think they're a proxy. They've had their own interest in Syria for years, not just supporting Assad, who is an Alawite as you note, but also supporting Hezbollah. They're certainly aligned with Russia in Syria and more broadly against the US in general, but they have their own interests in the region, which IMO go deeper than Russia's.

At some point they're bound to come into conflict.

Quote:
Putin is a Cold Warrior of the former Soviet Union, he doesn't want a Hot Confrontation with the United States of America.

Neither does the U.S.  

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He can save face by agreeing that Assad needs to be replaced in order to placate the Sunni Syrian majority, as long as he is allowed to go into exile (probably in Russia)

If there's going to be any type of Russia-US cooperation in Syria, this is pretty much it.
  
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Re: What to do in Syria
Reply #65 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 12:19pm
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Demos wrote on Apr 17th, 2017 at 12:12pm:
However, this is also Iran's goal.

I don't think they're a proxy. They've had their own interest in Syria for years, not just supporting Assad, who is an Alawite as you note, but also supporting Hezbollah. They're certainly aligned with Russia in Syria and more broadly against the US in general, but they have their own interests in the region, which IMO go deeper than Russia's.

At some point they're bound to come into conflict.

Neither does the U.S.  

If there's going to be any type of Russia-US cooperation in Syria, this is pretty much it.

I don't disagree with your perspective.  Yes, Iran and Russia share (some of) the same goals.  However, they are not equal partners and Russia is simply reinstating the former Soviet Union's practice of creating "Sphere's of influence' in the Middle East and around the globe.  The United States and our Western Democracy Allies are the necessary foils they need to gain influence with all those who hat America and the freedoms we enjoy!
  

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Re: What to do in Syria
Reply #66 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 12:23pm
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The Original Wally wrote on Apr 17th, 2017 at 12:19pm:
However, they are not equal partners and Russia is simply reinstating the former Soviet Union's practice of creating "Sphere's of influence' in the Middle East and around the globe.

Definitely 
  
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Re: What to do in Syria
Reply #67 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 12:37pm
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patrick2 wrote on Apr 17th, 2017 at 3:21am:
Roll Eyes  Oh geez.  The ol' "it's all about oil" canard floats to the surface again.....


What? You don't know about the pipeline to Europe that Assad is blocking?

That's the whole reason for arming the rebels.
  

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Re: What to do in Syria
Reply #68 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 1:09pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Apr 17th, 2017 at 12:37pm:
What? You don't know about the pipeline to Europe that Assad is blocking?

That's the whole reason for arming the rebels.


Could be perspective, but I can’t see any ability by almost anyone on the right to discuss anything negative from the past that resulted from their actions, or more importantly to even begin to accept anything resembling historical facts, or the lessons that should have been learned.

Oil – he doubts oil

  

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Re: What to do in Syria
Reply #69 - Apr 17th, 2017 at 1:13pm
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billy.pilgrim wrote on Apr 17th, 2017 at 1:09pm:
Could be perspective, but I can’t see any ability by almost anyone on the right to discuss anything negative from the past that resulted from their actions, or more importantly to even begin to accept anything resembling historical facts, or the lessons that should have been learned.

Oil – he doubts oil


It's not just the right.

They have myopia when it comes to foreign policy, sure. And the war on drugs. But that same myopia can be found on the left in terms of things like minimum wage laws.

Politics is tribal and most people do not spend a great deal of time trying to get into the mind of someone from the other tribe.

And today it's far too easy to escape into an alternative reality where all the media you consume is tailored to your particular biases.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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