Liberty News Forum
Political News Forum - Let your opinions be heard on current news and politics. Not for wimps!
Political Opinion Page - Recent Posts - LNF Forums LNF in the Age of Empowerment!
Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Entertainment - Sports Forum
Military - A1 News Page - Computers Tech - Financial News - Bunker - Presidential Tracking Poll
The House - Off the Wall News - Page 2 - Rasmussen Reports Polls - Chat Room
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Trump sending two more carriers to join Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Trump sending two more carriers to join Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group (Read 1,144 times)
JohnnyBgood
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
*****
Offline

Im guilty of Locker room
talk too

Posts: 25,268
Location: Maine
Joined: Aug 23rd, 2012
Gender: Male
Re: Trump sending two more carriers to join Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group
Reply #20 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 3:31pm
Print Post  
Seawolf wrote on Apr 18th, 2017 at 1:36pm:
But nuclear weapons in the hands of a dictator threatening to destroy us does not!?  Liberal logic never makes any sense to the rational mind. 

Politics aside, its a risky move. All its really doing is getting Russia on NKs side and worrying China. China's trying to help out peacefully.

If we can get China on our side over Russia and NK I'd feel more comfortable.
I hope the "Putin likes Trump" stuff is true.

NK did threaten us before the Ships got there.
I think Japan and SK are all for it
  

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 19,703
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Trump sending two more carriers to join Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group
Reply #21 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 3:39pm
Print Post  
JohnnyBgood wrote on Apr 18th, 2017 at 3:31pm:
Politics aside, its a risky move. All its really doing is getting Russia on NKs side and worrying China. China's trying to help out peacefully.

If we can get China on our side over Russia and NK I'd feel more comfortable.
I hope the "Putin likes Trump" stuff is true.

NK did threaten us before the Ships got there.
I think Japan and SK are all for it

With the assests we are bringing to bear, this looks like what the would simulate through years of wargaming.  If I was to guess, I suspect this would have to be an all out overwhelming act of force that would subdue the enemy with virtually no protraction.  Any protraction runs the risk of this escallating globally.  Just my best guess.  We are walking a very fine line.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Original Wally
Hardhat
Conservative Caucus
*****
Offline

Cunning... is but the
low mimic of wisdom ~Plato

Posts: 15,345
Location: Upstate New York
Joined: Feb 24th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Trump sending two more carriers to join Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group
Reply #22 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 3:40pm
Print Post  
forgotten centrist wrote on Apr 18th, 2017 at 3:06pm:
By all means, let's assume we'll have the best possible outcome!

Meanwhile, there are a great many bad possible outcomes:

- Our close ally South Korea gets mauled, with heavy loss of life
- Japan and/or China get caught in the crossfire
- China decides that it doesn't want a unified Korea under US protection, and exercises its territorial prerogatives (as it did in the Korean War)
- We end up spending $2T on a war we started, with no clear end-game and not nearly enough troops on the ground (just as in Iraq)
- Our intervention ends up empowering other regional players (China) instead of us, just as in Iraq
- Our sharply divided electorate revolts as the president who lost the popular vote and who never served in the military starts stocking up on body bags

We COULD try a more sane route:

- establish a regional accord with all local players (SK, Japan, China)
- set up a "grand bargain" -- sign the long-overdue peace treaty, establish full diplomatic relations and recognition, make security guarantees all around, and gain firm and verifiable arms reduction
This sort of idea has been going on since the Days of Jimmy Carter with Kim Jung Un's daddy.  Nothing has worked.  Kim Jung Il has to be stopped now before he develops his nuclear capabilities any further.  Obama left it on Trumps' desk just as Eisenhower left the Bay of Pigs Invasion on JFK's.  The military has been planning what to do for quite some time and Obama would not risk the political cost of taking us into a war.

My son is on the front lines and I am very concerned about his safety, but sometimes war is necessary.  If there were ever a case for a necessary war; this is it.  Before Kim Jung Un can hit mainland US, he no doubt could hit Hawaii and Pearl Harbor.  It wouldn't be the first time some small, militaristic Far Easter nation decided to attack us and begin a third world war!  The majority of people on both the right and the left believe there is no reasonaing or negotiations with this madman and that he will eventually use his nukes (and we are his declared enemy; the US and S.Korea and N. Korea are still in a technical state of War; the Korean War ended with a cease fire agreement and nothing more!)

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/armistice-ends-the-korean-war
« Last Edit: Apr 18th, 2017 at 4:21pm by The Original Wally »  

" The few will always act like the few.

Machiavelli

Back to top
WWWAIM  
IP Logged
 
Fiddler
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

Trolls exterminated while
you wait.

Posts: 18,089
Joined: Jan 28th, 2014
Gender: Male
Re: Trump sending two more carriers to join Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group
Reply #23 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 4:14pm
Print Post  
For more than a week, media reports in the U.S. and around Asia routinely have mentioned the approach of the aircraft carrier Carl Vinson's carrier strike group, seemingly implying an attack on North Korea could be imminent. But a week after the U.S. announced the carrier and its escorts would leave Singapore, forego port calls in Australia and instead return to Korean waters, the carrier and its group had yet to head north.

Rather, the ships were actually operating several hundred miles south of Singapore, taking part in scheduled exercises with Australian forces in the Indian Ocean.

On Saturday — according to photographs released by the U.S. Navy — the carrier passed north through the Sunda Strait, the passage between the Indonesian islands of Sumatra and Java. It's about 3,500 miles from Korea.

U.S. Navy officials in Pearl Harbor and Washington declined to comment on the ship’s movements, other than to confirm the April 15 movement through the Sunda Strait. Off the record, several officials expressed wonderment at the persistent reports that the Vinson was already nearing Korea. “We’ve made no such statement,” said one official.

Oops
  

Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Limey
LNF Speaker
The Writer's Croft
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 14,009
Location: the County Palatine
Joined: Dec 14th, 2012
Re: Trump sending two more carriers to join Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group
Reply #24 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 4:20pm
Print Post  
Seawolf wrote on Apr 18th, 2017 at 3:27pm:
If in the end it manages to remove nukes from NK without a shot being fired, I will not care who benefited from who.



Agree wholeheartedly.


I just like pointing out partisanship.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
forgotten centrist
LNF Speaker
*****
Offline

bring back the middle
class!

Posts: 10,371
Joined: Sep 29th, 2004
Re: Trump sending two more carriers to join Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group
Reply #25 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 4:21pm
Print Post  
The Original Wally wrote on Apr 18th, 2017 at 3:40pm:
It wouldn't be the first time some small, militaristic Far Easter nation decided to attack us and begin a third world war!


Think about it this way.  We fought against Japan in WWII being clearly in the right.  They attacked Pearl Harbor, so all bets were off.  But we were on the opposite side of that equation in Iraq.  We started the war, which took away the legitimacy of our side, particularly after no WMD showed up to justify it.  The result has been a military and diplomatic nightmare.

I see no way we can launch a pre-emptive attack on NK without getting the Chinese fully on-board.  And I don't see the Chinese ever getting on-board with a pre-emptive attack.
  

Nominated for 2016...
- Liberal of the Year
- Conservative of the Year
- Centrist of the Year
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The Original Wally
Hardhat
Conservative Caucus
*****
Offline

Cunning... is but the
low mimic of wisdom ~Plato

Posts: 15,345
Location: Upstate New York
Joined: Feb 24th, 2008
Gender: Male
Re: Trump sending two more carriers to join Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group
Reply #26 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 4:26pm
Print Post  
The Korean War has been touted as the first UNITED NATIONS success!  Where the F**k are all the rest of them United Nations forces with their stupid blue helmets?  (oh, out raping villagers in Africa)

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/modern-world-history-1918-to-1980/the-unite...

If the United States don't do it; it ain't getting done...ever!
  

" The few will always act like the few.

Machiavelli

Back to top
WWWAIM  
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 19,703
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Trump sending two more carriers to join Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group
Reply #27 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 4:30pm
Print Post  
forgotten centrist wrote on Apr 18th, 2017 at 4:21pm:
Think about it this way.  We fought against Japan in WWII being clearly in the right.  They attacked Pearl Harbor, so all bets were off.  But we were on the opposite side of that equation in Iraq.  We started the war, which took away the legitimacy of our side, particularly after no WMD showed up to justify it.  The result has been a military and diplomatic nightmare.

I see no way we can launch a pre-emptive attack on NK without getting the Chinese fully on-board.  And I don't see the Chinese ever getting on-board with a pre-emptive attack.

This is not Iraq, we already know factually that they have tested nukes, no one in the world comunity has ever stated otherwise.  We know it based on siesmic activities that confirm their own word of detonating a nuke, so this is not Iraq.  We also have been witnessing their missle launches and progression with each new generation of missle.  To state this is Iraq is not looking at this in it's proper prism.  What you are now advocating has been the primary tool we have used for decades and now we are on the verge of NK merging their nukes with their ICBMs, something we were trying to avoid but is now almost reality.  So what you have advocated has been an utter failure in the prevention of nukes for NK.  The only other line we can draw is respond once they launch and that is pure insanity.
« Last Edit: Apr 18th, 2017 at 4:40pm by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mojo-Jojo
LNF Senior Staffer5
**
Offline

The hobo fohmally known
as Jojo is no mo'.

Posts: 564
Location: Appalachia, USA
Joined: Jun 29th, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Trump sending two more carriers to join Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group
Reply #28 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 4:38pm
Print Post  
I see no good options.

The "let's do this once and for all" mentality never see's past the ***BOOM*** of the initial assault. From there on the fog of war and its unintended consequences kick in.

If we do what we've been doing, 'lil Kimmy will just get better at making more missiles and nukes to ride them.

Best to keep doing what's avoided a hot war, play the game. If and when he actually launches something, at anyone, that is the time to bring the hammer down and hope to hell the consequences are minimal. Brinkmanship diplomacy is nothing new. Don't see the immediate need for a first strike or to provoke a first strike.

  

For too long have we sat under the thumb of mankind! The time has come to *oppose* that thumb!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Seawolf
LNF Speaker
LNF Bunker
*****
Offline

I Love Liberty News Forum!

Posts: 19,703
Joined: Oct 31st, 2011
Gender: Male
Re: Trump sending two more carriers to join Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group
Reply #29 - Apr 18th, 2017 at 4:43pm
Print Post  
Mojo-Jojo wrote on Apr 18th, 2017 at 4:38pm:
I see no good options.

The "let's do this once and for all" mentality never see's past the ***BOOM*** of the initial assault. From there on the fog of war and its unintended consequences kick in.

If we do what we've been doing, 'lil Kimmy will just get better at making more missiles and nukes to ride them.

Best to keep doing what's avoided a hot war, play the game. If and when he actually launches something, at anyone, that is the time to bring the hammer down and hope to hell the consequences are minimal. Brinkmanship diplomacy is nothing new. Don't see the immediate need for a first strike or to provoke a first strike.


The anyone is our country, that is too late for us to respond.  You can not garantee to the citizens of this nation that we can absolutely shoot any and every missle he shoots out of the air.  That is insane, we are in a pickle to say the least but waiting till he shoots with dire consequences is pure insanity.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6
Send TopicPrint
 
Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HerePolitical Opinion Page - The Hot Seat › Trump sending two more carriers to join Carl Vinson Carrier Strike Group

LNF Home - Political Opinion Page
LNF Forums

Christian Forum - Religion Forum - Sports Forum - Entertainment - House
Military, History - Cooking and Crafts - Creative Writing
Off the Wall News - Science Forum - Tech Gadgets - Financial News - Humor
Bunker - Page 2 - Page 3 - Page 4 - Chat Room





Drudge Report - News Max - Rush Limbaugh - FrontpageMag
Advertise on the LNF - Twitter LNF - LNF Archive - LNF News
LNF Blog
News and Political Links
Political Blogs
Add your website or blog
Political Columnists
Political Humor
News forum posting, privacy policy and member rules