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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What's Going On Now Just Backs My Claims (Read 834 times)
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Re: What's Going On Now Just Backs My Claims
Reply #10 - May 17th, 2017 at 5:30am
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The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 5:26am:
And the citizenry is either partisan, fed up or uninterested.

I'm all three.

FIDDLER: Yeah, and you look like it.
  


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Re: What's Going On Now Just Backs My Claims
Reply #11 - May 17th, 2017 at 5:33am
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The Wet Dreams of Mr Cousteau wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 5:26am:
And the citizenry is either partisan, fed up or uninterested.



Okay, Back to our regular scheduled program with "The citizenry our founders feared is here" Wink Grin
  

All throughout our American history, world history, "ordinary people can do extraordinary things"
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Re: What's Going On Now Just Backs My Claims
Reply #12 - May 17th, 2017 at 5:38am
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Luther wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 5:29am:
Got it

Of course not

Without Gov you have chaos Wink


Ah.  So you just don't believe in Democracy then?
  

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But, but, but....but Hillary, but Lynch, but Obama, but Boosh, but Clinton!
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Re: What's Going On Now Just Backs My Claims
Reply #13 - May 17th, 2017 at 5:40am
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Lomelis wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 5:38am:
Ah.  So you just don't believe in Democracy then?



How's the "Democracy" going in Calif for ya? Huh Shocked

I thought our form of Gov at the Fed level is a Republic?
  

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Re: What's Going On Now Just Backs My Claims
Reply #14 - May 17th, 2017 at 5:59am
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Luther wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 5:40am:
How's the "Democracy" going in Calif for ya? Huh Shocked



I'm not sure why you keep idiotically bringing up California.  Just because I live in CA doesn't mean I agree with the politics.  I'm definitely a political minority.  My questions have nothing to do with defending the status quo, I'm trying to figure out where you stand.

Quote:
I thought our form of Gov at the Fed level is a Republic?


Do we need to argue about the definition of "is" as well?  Stop being obtuse, my use of the word Democracy is in reference to the ability of the people to vote, whether for representatives or full on direct democracy is irrelevant.  You keep saying that the people are the problem, that leads me to believe that you do not believe people should be allowed to vote.  That would be the real solution.  Personally I'm not a big fan of Democracy, but I'm trying to figure out where you stand.  Are you just bitching just to bitch?  You aren't an anarchist, you believe that government is necessary, but you constantly gripe about an ignorant populace making stupid decisions.  Rome is burning and all that, nothing can be done, bla bla bla.  What do -you- propose?  What do you believe is the solution?  Do you want to limit voting to a specialized minority?  Do you want to do away with voting all together?  What are you advocating exactly?  That's what I'm trying to figure out because all I've seen you do is whine and complain the "problem is the citizenry" without actually providing any sort of proposals or solutions.
  

Deny, Ignore, Evade, Distract, Place Blame Elsewhere!  Must defend the Trump Messiah!

But, but, but....but Hillary, but Lynch, but Obama, but Boosh, but Clinton!
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Re: What's Going On Now Just Backs My Claims
Reply #15 - May 17th, 2017 at 6:12am
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Lomelis wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 5:59am:
I'm not sure why you keep idiotically bringing up California.  Just because I live in CA doesn't mean I agree with the politics.  I'm definitely a political minority.  My  stand.questions have nothing to do with defending the status quo, I'm trying to figure out where you


Do we need to argue about the definition of "is" as well?  Stop being obtuse, my use of the word Democracy is in reference to the ability of the people to vote, whether for representatives or full on direct democracy is irrelevant.  You keep saying that the people are the problem, that leads me to believe that you do not believe people should be allowed to vote.  That would be the real solution.  Personally I'm not a big fan of Democracy b,ut I'm trying to figure out where you stand.  Are you just bitching just to bitch?  You aren't an anarchist, you believe that government is necessary, but you constantly gripe about an ignorant populace making stupid decisions.  Rome is burning and all that, nothing can be done, bla bla bla.  What do -you- propose?  What do you believe is the solution?  Do you want to limit voting to a specialized minority?  Do you want to do away with voting all together?  What are you advocating exactly?  That's what I'm trying to figure out because all I've seen you do is whine and complain the "problem is the citizenry" without actually providing any sort of proposals or solutions.




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I'm not sure why you keep idiotically bringing up California.

Grin Grin Grin

It shows me what your principles are and where you stand(as of now) It shows me just how much you're willing to take Wink

I was smart enough to get out of there 13 years ago while the getting was good. Wink


Quote:
but I'm trying to figure out where you stand


Closer to you than you might know.

I was impressed by your past comment on voting is the problem(enables) or something like that? Can you correct if I'm wrong?


Quote:
That's what I'm trying to figure out because all I've seen you do is whine and complain the "problem is the citizenry" without actually providing any sort of proposals or solutions.


No, if you had paid attention I have come up with a solution in past comments. It also doesn't have to be my solution. What's yours?
  

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Re: What's Going On Now Just Backs My Claims
Reply #16 - May 17th, 2017 at 6:31am
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Luther wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 5:22am:
Agreed, Trump isn't the main issue .

Our citizenry that our founders feared is our issue

I disagree with your premise that our founders feared our citizenry.  The believed in government of the people, for the people and by the people. What our Founders Feared was government itself.  They were afraid of tyranny and oppression and loss of Liberty and personal freedoms.  They created our Constitution to specifically limit the power of the government they created for this country and to protect the rights of our citizenry for anyone who might ever try to create the oppressive tyranny they knew so well existed in Europe.

Our Founders also feared God and praised and worshiped him.

As proof of my disagreement with you, that our Founders did not fear the citizenry, they created the 2nd Amendment, knowing that an armed citizenry was they best defense against the loss of our citizen's Liberty and Freedoms to any future government.  They knew full well the nature of Tyrants and Elite, Aristocratic Oligarchies.
  

" The few will always act like the few.

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Re: What's Going On Now Just Backs My Claims
Reply #17 - May 17th, 2017 at 6:40am
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The Original Wally wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 6:31am:
I disagree with your premise that our founders feared our citizenry.  The believed in government of the people, for the people and by the people. What our Founders Feared was government itself.  They were afraid of tyranny and oppression and loss of Liberty and personal freedoms.  They created our Constitution to specifically limit the power of the government they created for this country and to protect the rights of our citizenry for anyone who might ever try to create the oppressive tyranny they knew so well existed in Europe.

Our Founders also feared God and praised and worshiped him.

As proof of my disagreement with you, that our Founders did not fear the citizenry, they created the 2nd Amendment, knowing that an armed citizenry was they best defense against the loss of our citizen's Liberty and Freedoms to any future government.  They knew full well the nature of Tyrants and Elite, Aristocratic Oligarchies.


Quote:
I disagree with your premise that our founders feared our citizenry.  The believed in government of the people, for the people and by the people.


Wally? You don't think Madison studied why Past Gov's/civilizations fail, i.e Rome Greece etc,?

Are politicians just not people or citizens Wally? Why do you think Franklin said" A "Republic" if you can keep it"


Not from my studies Wally. Have you not heard people say people deserve the Gov they get?  Come on, we all have Wink

Bottom line: Gov is only as good as the people.
« Last Edit: May 17th, 2017 at 6:53am by Luther »  

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Re: What's Going On Now Just Backs My Claims
Reply #18 - May 17th, 2017 at 7:10am
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Luther wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 6:40am:
Wally? You don't think Madison studied why Past Gov's fail i.e Rome Greece etc,?

Are politicians just not people or citizens Wally? Why do you think Franklin said" A "Republic" if you can keep it"


Not from my studies Wally. Have you not heard people say people deserve the Gov they get?  Come on, we all have Wink

Bottom line: Gov is only as good as the people.

It wasn't only for fear of assassination or physical harm that Madison, Hamilton and John Jay wrote the Federalist Papers under the pseudonym "Publius".  The last great Republic the world had known was that of the Romans.  They knew the benefits of a Republic and they new the risks, as well.  They were very well aware that the fall of the Roman Republic was primarily due to the pervasive nihilism of the Roman people.  The government of Rome brought Christianity in a futile attempt to save their Republic from its destruction. Their people had gone far too far down the rabbit hole for them to return.  This is why our  Founders based the founding of our government on Christianity, so it would serve as a moral compass, right from the beginning.  They came from where the King of England had proclaimed the Anglican Religion as the state religion and they wanted to enshrine the principal that the government could not do what the Kings and Queens of England had done.  BTW; the only place a "separation of church and state" is mentioned, is not in the Constitution, but in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to a Christian Church assuring them they had nothing to fear from this new government' boy has that become perverted over the years!  (ignorant people believe it is part of the 1st Amendment which it is not and they use very tortured logic to justify their own views being 'Constitutional')

Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter
https://usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html
  

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Re: What's Going On Now Just Backs My Claims
Reply #19 - May 17th, 2017 at 7:23am
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The Original Wally wrote on May 17th, 2017 at 7:10am:
It wasn't only for fear of assassination or physical harm that Madison, Hamilton and John Jay wrote the Federalist Papers under the pseudonym "Publius".  The last great Republic the world had known was that of the Romans.  They knew the benefits of a Republic and they new the risks, as well.  They were very well aware that the fall of the Roman Republic was primarily due to the pervasive nihilism of the Roman people.  The government of Rome brought Christianity in a futile attempt to save their Republic from its destruction. Their people had gone far too far down the rabbit hole for them to return.  This is why our  Founders based the founding of our government on Christianity, so it would serve as a moral compass, right from the beginning.  They came from where the King of England had proclaimed the Anglican Religion as the state religion and they wanted to enshrine the principal that the government could not do what the Kings and Queens of England had done.  BTW; the only place a "separation of church and state" is mentioned, is not in the Constitution, but in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to a Christian Church assuring them they had nothing to fear from this new government' boy has that become perverted over the years!  (ignorant people believe it is part of the 1st Amendment which it is not and they use very tortured logic to justify their own views being 'Constitutional')

Jefferson's Wall of Separation Letter
https://usconstitution.net/jeffwall.html


Quote:
They were very well aware that the fall of the Roman Republic was primarily due to the pervasive nihilism of the Roman people. 


As well as complacency and apathy


"Give the people bread and circuses and you may do what you will to the people"

So , are you sticking to our Founders didn't fear the people even as you seem to be writing about it? Huh
  

All throughout our American history, world history, "ordinary people can do extraordinary things"
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