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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereEconomics, Financial News › On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin (Read 1,335 times)
TowardLiberty
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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #30 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 2:28pm
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EF wrote on Sep 17th, 2017 at 8:14pm:
No, I was addressing your comment that it's "transparently public" which was made in response to my comment that it has helped with computer hacking.  I still can't see that Bitcoin does anything any better than something we already had and the more I read about what it is, the less I understand it.  I am thinking Tuliplmania is an apt comparison.


You don't see how an alternative currency system that is free from arbitrary control and direction is better than what we had before?

A currency that is already 4000 times more valuable than the dollar is not better?

It's not better that we have a form of money that is independent of political control?

That's finite?

How is this not an improvement over centralized and politicized forms of money?

When you say things like this it strikes me that you might not understand what is so bad about the dollar and other fiat forms of money..
« Last Edit: Sep 21st, 2017 at 8:52pm by TowardLiberty »  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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TowardLiberty
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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #31 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 2:33pm
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EF wrote on Sep 19th, 2017 at 1:01pm:
This guy seems to think so, too.  Others don't.  Time will tell.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/13/bitcoin-is-in-a-bubble-and-heres-how-its-going-t...

And he knows what a collapse looks like, having presided over one apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Insana

I would note that Morgan bought Bitcoin on the lows after Dimon's comments!

Regarding the claim that it fails as a store of value, a unit of account and a medium of exchange...

I do not see how that makes any sense.

It's 4000 times more valuable than the dollar. So if it's not a store of value, then neither is the dollar.

It most certainly is a unit of account for those who use it. And so is it a medium of exchange.

Bitcoin might be a bubble. Who knows. But these stuff about it failing to meet these criteria is simply wrong.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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EF
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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #32 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 3:20pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Sep 21st, 2017 at 2:33pm:
I would note that Morgan bought Bitcoin on the lows after Dimon's comments!

Regarding the claim that it fails as a store of value, a unit of account and a medium of exchange...

I do not see how that makes any sense.

It's 4000 times more valuable than the dollar. So if it's not a store of value, then neither is the dollar.

It most certainly is a unit of account for those who use it. And so is it a medium of exchange.

Bitcoin might be a bubble. Who knows. But these stuff about it failing to meet these criteria is simply wrong.


Well, a dollar really isn't a good store of value.  Never has been when compared to most alternatives.

we'll see how it goes.
  

non sumus stulti
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TowardLiberty
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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #33 - Sep 21st, 2017 at 8:55pm
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EF wrote on Sep 21st, 2017 at 3:20pm:
Well, a dollar really isn't a good store of value.  Never has been when compared to most alternatives.

we'll see how it goes.

I'm not sure any fiat money really does all that well.

You need to look outside of money to find assets that do well over the long term.

Bitcoin represents a break from this pattern. It is the first money in recent history (like a few hundred years of history, going back to the Bank of Amsterdam) that is not a tool of wealth extraction for the elite.

The first money that is not a political tool under the control of the powerful, whether private bankers or government planning boards.

This is history in the making.

It's akin to a new Magna Carta, or Bill of Rights.

It's a revolution for democracy- for the little guy. It's a shot across the bow of the oligarchy.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #34 - Sep 22nd, 2017 at 2:09pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Sep 21st, 2017 at 8:55pm:
I'm not sure any fiat money really does all that well.

You need to look outside of money to find assets that do well over the long term.

Bitcoin represents a break from this pattern. It is the first money in recent history (like a few hundred years of history, going back to the Bank of Amsterdam) that is not a tool of wealth extraction for the elite.

The first money that is not a political tool under the control of the powerful, whether private bankers or government planning boards.

This is history in the making.

It's akin to a new Magna Carta, or Bill of Rights.

It's a revolution for democracy- for the little guy. It's a shot across the bow of the oligarchy.

we'll see.....
  

non sumus stulti
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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #35 - Oct 5th, 2017 at 8:32am
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Possumpoint wrote on May 29th, 2017 at 12:41pm:
The valuation of a bitcoin is established by demand. Yet, among the majority of people, it is an unknown. Correct me if I'm wrong, you don't hold bitcoin in hand. Exchanges are facilitated with computer terminals.  Physical money, either paper or precious metal held in hand will be the universal exchange media. Once. people learn that fiat money is only backed by a promise and the government isn't going to be there for the average Joe, it will be worthless.

You give me a dozen eggs and I give you either something in barter or a physical coin. Gold carries such high value that eggs would be very valuable indeed. My understanding of silver fits in the next level down. A Silver Dime, roughly 1/10 of an oz of silver, would cover the purchase. By the way, a 1/10 of an oz of silver was the day's wages for soldiers and farm workers during the Roman Empire.

A whole new valuation based on precious metals will have to come into its own. IMHO in a collapse, I believe that fiat money will revert to its true value, toilet paper. Yet, I'm holding physical cash for purchases needed just before the collapse I see coming. I will use it till it becomes worthless.

virtual holdings may be subject to illegal manipulation (hacks) or even being wiped out in some man caused catastrophe by individuals or state actors.  (including EMP attacks).

It's nice to hold something in your hand.  (what makes it real?)
  

" The few will always act like the few.

Machiavelli

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TowardLiberty
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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #36 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 12:08am
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TowardLiberty wrote on May 29th, 2017 at 1:00pm:
As it becomes more common it will be worth a great deal more. Even at 2000 a coin, we are on the ground floor of this thing.

Wow. We were talking about 2000 dollar Bitcoins only a few months back in September. Today we just broke through 12,000 dollars per Bitcoin.

This thing is nuts.

My Iota investment is up 381% since Aug.

I hope you guys don't let this opportunity pass you by!

  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #37 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:15am
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TowardLiberty wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 12:08am:
Wow. We were talking about 2000 dollar Bitcoins only a few months back in September. Today we just broke through 12,000 dollars per Bitcoin.

This thing is nuts.

My Iota investment is up 381% since Aug.

I hope you guys don't let this opportunity pass you by!



In what world is a 381% return in three months a sound investment? How is that not a pyramid scheme, only without (to our knowledge) the swindler knowingly orchestrating the fraud? That's, by far, way more volatile than any concerns about U.S. paper money.

  

Cleek's Law: Today’s conservatism is the opposite of what liberals want today, updated daily.
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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #38 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:19am
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EF wrote on Sep 10th, 2017 at 8:02pm:
At one time, Tulips were doing better in Holland.


This is brilliant!
  

Cleek's Law: Today’s conservatism is the opposite of what liberals want today, updated daily.
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TowardLiberty
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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #39 - Dec 6th, 2017 at 1:37pm
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MJ wrote on Dec 6th, 2017 at 2:15am:
In what world is a 381% return in three months a sound investment? How is that not a pyramid scheme, only without (to our knowledge) the swindler knowingly orchestrating the fraud? That's, by far, way more volatile than any concerns about U.S. paper money.

http://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/blog_bitcoin_value_2010_20...


Well I have no doubt it is a bubble. But like the bubble in Apple stock in 1999, I believe this thing has a future beyond the bubble.

And so do many others. And that's what is driving the price increase. We are seeing mainstream adoption. The CBOE is about to list BTC based derivatives. Major accounting firms like Deloitte are accepting it as payment.

We are seeing a bubble no doubt. But we are also seeing the emergence of a new form of money.

The early adopters bought an asset and are holding for the long run- most are anyway. They are helping to transform an asset into money.

It's not there yet. But we are on the way.

Atleast that's my take. No doubt it could be wrong.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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