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Liberty News ForumLNF Forums HereEconomics, Financial News › On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin (Read 3,962 times)
EF
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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #60 - Jan 17th, 2018 at 1:35pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Dec 27th, 2017 at 1:16pm:
Well let me say this. If you don't see the value in freeing money up from centralized control, you will never understand why people value Bitcoin.

It will forever remain an enigma.


Been watching the news a little lately.   People are beginning to value Bitcoin a bit less than before.  Shades of tulipmania?  We'll see. 

A tulip bulb will grow a flower, though.

But then again: https://www.forbes.com/sites/cbovaird/2018/01/17/analysts-bitcoins-sharp-decline...
« Last Edit: Jan 17th, 2018 at 1:48pm by EF »  

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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #61 - Jan 18th, 2018 at 2:26am
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Wheeee!
  

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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #62 - Jan 19th, 2018 at 3:40pm
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More on bitcoin with a relevant excerpt:

http://theweek.com/articles/749403/end-bitcoin

All of this ultimately points back to a question that has never really been answered well: What the hell is bitcoin for?

To really work as money, bitcoin needs to be widely used. There need to be lots of actors providing a wide array of goods and services who are all willing to take bitcoin as payment.

But why would anyone use it? Contrary to the libertarian romanticism that inspired bitcoin's creation, most Western fiat currencies work really well as money. There's no need for most businesses to saddle themselves with bitcoin's extra headaches. It doesn't offer the speed or convenience of standard mainstream payments systems like credit cards or PayPal. And bitcoin's volatility and the extreme run-up in its price have made transaction fees highly volatile and expensive.

To find a devoted economy, bitcoin needs to stabilize in value. To stabilize in value, bitcoin needs a devoted economy. It's a bit of a catch-22.

The final use of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, of course, is to evade government oversight and dodge law enforcement. Which brings us back to China, Russia, South Korea, and their possible crackdowns.

There are plenty of governments in the world that deserve to be evaded. But they generally do not like being evaded.
  

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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #63 - Jan 19th, 2018 at 3:48pm
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It works to buy drugs. The ones accepting it for drugs are most likely on drugs themselves.
  

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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #64 - Jan 20th, 2018 at 5:28pm
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TowardLiberty wrote on Sep 11th, 2017 at 6:34pm:
Bitcoin is to central banks what Uber is to taxi companies.

It is a source of disruption in a market based on exclusive privilege- on monopoly.

And like all monopolies, the money monopoly is an inferior product. It is inferior for many reasons, the main one being that it is constantly losing value. Fiat money is a poor store of value and that's a key component of what makes a good money.

Bitcoin is finite where fiat money is not.

And there is no Bitcoin monetary policy, which means it is not centrally planned.

Its operation follows market based principles.

The problem it solves is one of offering a substitute to an inferior money.

There is a lot to unpack in this brief answer. And a lot I am not touching on.

Any form of currency is dependent upon it's acceptance for payment for goods, services or real property transactions.

I great example of this is the printing of currency by all thirteen newly formed states, in between the end of the Revolutionary War and the forming of a Federal Government in 1789.  People went back to barter because the currency wasn't worth the paper it was written on.  The same thing happened with the Confederate currency following the surrender of Lee at Appomattox Courthouse.  At least such currencies even today have some value to collector's/  Bitcoin, on the other hand is as gone as the data one loses when one's hard drive crashes.  (it's an analogy, don't start talking about external backups and the Cloud)
  

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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #65 - Jan 22nd, 2018 at 12:09am
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Wally Wants a Wall wrote on Jan 20th, 2018 at 5:28pm:
Any form of currency is dependent upon it's acceptance for payment for goods, services or real property transactions.

I great example of this is the printing of currency by all thirteen newly formed states, in between the end of the Revolutionary War and the forming of a Federal Government in 1789.  People went back to barter because the currency wasn't worth the paper it was written on.  The same thing happened with the Confederate currency following the surrender of Lee at Appomattox Courthouse.  At least such currencies even today have some value to collector's/  Bitcoin, on the other hand is as gone as the data one loses when one's hard drive crashes.  (it's an analogy, don't start talking about external backups and the Cloud)

I'm not sure what you are telling me, Wally. What is the criticism of Bitcoin? Or is this not a criticism at all?
  

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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #66 - Jan 31st, 2018 at 9:31am
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TowardLiberty wrote on Jan 22nd, 2018 at 12:09am:
I'm not sure what you are telling me, Wally. What is the criticism of Bitcoin? Or is this not a criticism at all?

cyprtocurrencies are being used far more for laundering real money than it is being accepted as payment of anything of real value.  The price of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is being manipulated by drug cartels and even the Russians. They are inflating a bubble and as surely as "th Tulip bubble" it will eventually burst.  Unlike cryptocurrencies, such as bitcoin, at least tulips have some real value because they really exist and their will always be a demand for these flowers.  (the value of these flowers was manipulated well beyond what they really were worth).  Do you see the parallel?

Having said all this, people do make real money riding the crest of such hyperinflation ponzi schemes.  Buy low; sell high! Wink

BTW; if you are a computer gamer and want to help pay for your addiction, "renting" out your hardware for bitcoin mining may even pay for your equipment and electric bill if you want to Mine cryptocurrency.  You can even purchase computer components off the web for bitcoin (one of the few things you can buy with bitcoin, really)  example:  https://shopawl.com/
« Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2018 at 9:38am by Wally Wants a Wall »  

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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #67 - Jan 31st, 2018 at 10:58am
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The greater fool theory states that the price of an object is determined not by its intrinsic value, but rather by irrational beliefs and expectations of market participants.[1] A price can be justified by a rational buyer under the belief that another party is willing to pay an even higher price.[2][3][4] In other words, one may pay a price that seems "foolishly" high because one may rationally have the expectation that the item can be resold to a "greater fool" later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory
  

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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #68 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 4:12pm
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Wally Wants a Wall wrote on Jan 31st, 2018 at 9:31am:
cyprtocurrencies are being used far more for laundering real money than it is being accepted as payment of anything of real value. 


Oh? Tell that to the people buying luxury housing properties in London, or consumer goods on Overstock. Or how about where this whole thing started, in the dark web drug markets?

I will agree that there is more adoption driven by speculation than by people looking to spend cryptos immediately.

In this sense, it is more a store of value than a medium of exchange.

Quote:
The price of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies is being manipulated by drug cartels and even the Russians. They are inflating a bubble and as surely as "th Tulip bubble" it will eventually burst. 


Got anything to back that wild claim up?

Quote:


Unlike cryptocurrencies, such as bitcoin, at least tulips have some real value because they really exist and their will always be a demand for these flowers.  (the value of these flowers was manipulated well beyond what they really were worth).  Do you see the parallel?


What is "real" value?

And doesn't a digital existence count as existing?

Do the credits in your debt account exist?
Quote:
Having said all this, people do make real money riding the crest of such hyperinflation ponzi schemes.  Buy low; sell high! Wink

BTW; if you are a computer gamer and want to help pay for your addiction, "renting" out your hardware for bitcoin mining may even pay for your equipment and electric bill if you want to Mine cryptocurrency.  You can even purchase computer components off the web for bitcoin (one of the few things you can buy with bitcoin, really)  example:  https://shopawl.com/

Thanks for the heads up.  Smiley
  

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Re: On Gold, Dollars, & Bitcoin
Reply #69 - Feb 1st, 2018 at 4:14pm
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Harrys Sockpuppet4335 wrote on Jan 31st, 2018 at 10:58am:
The greater fool theory states that the price of an object is determined not by its intrinsic value, but rather by irrational beliefs and expectations of market participants.[1] A price can be justified by a rational buyer under the belief that another party is willing to pay an even higher price.[2][3][4] In other words, one may pay a price that seems "foolishly" high because one may rationally have the expectation that the item can be resold to a "greater fool" later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory

Indeed.

And I think there is a healthy amount of this happening in the crypto space.
  

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