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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil... (Read 3,163 times)
BowHunter
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #10 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 3:40am
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Nazi Hunter B.S.C. wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 1:09am:
I had a good friend in college, referred to himself as a zen Buddhist.  He was beyond cool and somehow intensely mellow as I remember. 

"Don't harsh my mellow" used to be a very cool expression... not so much anymore.
  

Non sequitur:

Rodney Your Teas Ready wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Muckster
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #11 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 6:37pm
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Seawolf wrote on May 30th, 2017 at 5:38pm:
An Objection: Is God Responsible for All Evil?

Frequently it is alleged, however, that ultimately God is responsible for “evil” — for had he not created angels and men, the evil they have generated would not exist.

The logic employed in this objection is flawed, and the critic who makes it will scarcely stay with it in a consistent manner.

No greater compliment could have been paid to man than to have been created in the very image of God (Gen. 1:26-27). A part of that “creation package” was the gift of personal volition, that is, the ability to make moral choices. There are only two logical possibilities — one might be created with “free will,” or without “free will.”

Now which option is the obvious expression of love (cf. 1 Jn. 4:8). The former, of course. The Lord thus signally honored human beings by granting them the personal power of choice. Once such action was taken, the Creator is not morally culpable if the gift of choice is abused, and the possessor thereof elects to pursue the road of danger and destruction.

Is the designer or manufacturer of an automobile morally responsible for the drunk driver who runs down and kills an innocent child? And what of the godly mother who made every effort to raise her children in harmony with the Lord’s will; is she accountable for the actions of a wayward offspring who robs a bank or commits murder? These questions hardly need an expressed answer.

And so, while God is the Maker of men, he is not morally indictable for the follies of those upon whom he bestowed one of the greatest gifts possible — that of genuine freedom!

Scripture References

Isaiah 45:7; Isaiah 45:5-7; Isaiah 6:3; Revelation 4:8; Deuteronomy 32:4; Habakkuk 1:13; James 1:13-14; John 1:1; 1 Corinthians 8:4-6; John 12:42; Acts 2:41, 44; Romans 3:10; Matthew 1:19; Matthew 7:1; John 7:24; Ephesians 2:9; James 2:24; Mark 7:21-23; Isaiah 47:10-11; Jeremiah 18:8; Ecclesiastes 12:1; Romans 5:12; Genesis 1:26-27; John 4:8

https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/676-did-god-create-evil
So I take it all Christians are Pro-Choice, and if not, then they disagree with god giving us geniune freedom. Afterall, if god gave us free will knowing we might kill and She's ok with that, then She's ok with allowing women "genuine freedom" to control their own bodies. Seawolf, you're awesome! You practically make Liberal's arguments for them.
  
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BowHunter
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #12 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 6:42pm
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Muckster wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 6:37pm:
So I take it all Christians are Pro-Choice, and if not, then they disagree with god giving us geniune freedom. Afterall, if god gave us free will knowing we might kill and She's ok with that, then She's ok with allowing women "genuine freedom" to control their own bodies. Seawolf, you're awesome! You practically make Liberal's arguments for them.

Apparently god only allows freedom of choice in certain areas and not in others, it's up to the god "experts" to decide when it's the latter that is true and when it's the former. Never mind that there are as many theories on that as there are groups of so called experts, and that means thousands.
  

Non sequitur:

Rodney Your Teas Ready wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Frank1
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #13 - Jun 1st, 2017 at 6:59pm
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Limey wrote on May 30th, 2017 at 7:43pm:
Please don't use the word "logic" in a conversation about religion,  it's like using the word "graceful"  in a conversation about fat people humping.


Lol, you are just showing your ignorance here, Limey.

Aristotle, who basically invented Western logic, was a super-naturalist, as was his master Plato.

Try again.   Wink
  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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Limey
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #14 - Jun 2nd, 2017 at 8:10pm
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Frank1 wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 6:59pm:
Lol, you are just showing your ignorance here, Limey.

Aristotle, who basically invented Western logic, was a super-naturalist, as was his master Plato.

Try again.   Wink


Yeah but Socrates and death/religion.....

You try again.
« Last Edit: Jun 2nd, 2017 at 8:18pm by Limey »  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Frank1
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #15 - Jun 2nd, 2017 at 10:46pm
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Limey wrote on Jun 2nd, 2017 at 8:10pm:
Yeah but Socrates and death/religion.....

You try again.


?
  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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BowHunter
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #16 - Jun 3rd, 2017 at 7:56am
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Frank1 wrote on Jun 1st, 2017 at 6:59pm:
Lol, you are just showing your ignorance here, Limey.

Aristotle, who basically invented Western logic, was a super-naturalist, as was his master Plato.

Try again.   Wink

Aristotle and Plato would have been burned at the stake for heresy by the "Christians" that came thousands of years later.

You try again!
  

Non sequitur:

Rodney Your Teas Ready wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Frank1
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #17 - Jun 3rd, 2017 at 1:11pm
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BowHunter wrote on Jun 3rd, 2017 at 7:56am:
Aristotle and Plato would have been burned at the stake for heresy by the "Christians" that came thousands of years later.

You try again! 


Really?

The Catholic Middle Ages worked to integrate Aristotle's thought into their theology.

Aquinas referred to Aristotle as "the philosopher."  I believe Plato was less well-known before the Renaissance.

Now, it is true that among Protestants, who generally focus solely on the Bible and Jesus, such reference to pagan philosophers is more likely to be frowned upon.  Not that Protestantism is 'bad' here.  Protestant simply has a different focus than Catholicism.
  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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Limey
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #18 - Jun 3rd, 2017 at 6:24pm
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Frank, please don't start pretending that the Catholic Church of the middle ages was enlightened about alternative interpretation s of anything at all.

Cathars?  What happened to them?
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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Frank1
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #19 - Jun 3rd, 2017 at 9:38pm
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Limey wrote on Jun 3rd, 2017 at 6:24pm:
Frank, please don't start pretending that the Catholic Church of the middle ages was enlightened about alternative interpretation s of anything at all.

Cathars?  What happened to them?


Limey, you are confused.

I said that the Catholic church integrated Aristotle into its thought: this is true.

I never said the Catholic church tolerated all types of religious thought as correct, did I?  Of course the church fought against what it saw as heresy.

The plain fact is, none of you guys know anything of which you speak.  You are all talking out your asses based on mere stereotypes you have.

Aristotle, the inventor of logic, was a super-naturalist.  Therefore, logic and religion, or super-naturalism, go together just fine.  Secondly, the Catholic Church absolutely did integrate Aristotle into its thought, and Thomism, the philosophy of Aquinas, seen as the pinnacle of mainstream Catholic thought, is heavily influenced by Aristotle.

So, to say religion and logic 'don't go together' is simply wrong.  Now, when you debate Joe Schmoe everyday Christian on the internet, he might be very illogical, just as most Joe Schmoe atheists are ignorant and illogical.  But if you want to learn about a type of thought, that is, if you really sincerely what to learn about it, you go to its best exponents, and study them.  You don't debate Joe Schmoe and then take his views to represent a whole system of thought, not, at least, if you are serious.

Thus, if I want to learn about atheism I should read Bertrand Russell, rather than debating Sam the Schmuck atheist on youtube...and if you really want to learn about religious thought, you won't go to me or Seawolf, but to the primary sources.  The Summa Theologica, with helpful commentaries, is available for a reasonable price.   Wink

...or you can continue to debate ignorant everyday people, and when they are illogical you can then say "see, Christianity is illogical, herpity derp!!!"

« Last Edit: Jun 3rd, 2017 at 9:43pm by Frank1 »  


To say homo sapiens, is to say Homo religiosus; there is no man without God. ~Frithjof Schuon
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