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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil... (Read 3,115 times)
BowHunter
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #20 - Jun 4th, 2017 at 3:57am
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Frank1 wrote on Jun 3rd, 2017 at 9:38pm:
Limey, you are confused.

I said that the Catholic church integrated Aristotle into its thought: this is true.

I never said the Catholic church tolerated all types of religious thought as correct, did I?  Of course the church fought against what it saw as heresy.

The plain fact is, none of you guys know anything of which you speak.  You are all talking out your asses based on mere stereotypes you have.

Aristotle, the inventor of logic, was a super-naturalist.  Therefore, logic and religion, or super-naturalism, go together just fine.  Secondly, the Catholic Church absolutely did integrate Aristotle into its thought, and Thomism, the philosophy of Aquinas, seen as the pinnacle of mainstream Catholic thought, is heavily influenced by Aristotle.

So, to say religion and logic 'don't go together' is simply wrong.  Now, when you debate Joe Schmoe everyday Christian on the internet, he might be very illogical, just as most Joe Schmoe atheists are ignorant and illogical.  But if you want to learn about a type of thought, that is, if you really sincerely what to learn about it, you go to its best exponents, and study them.  You don't debate Joe Schmoe and then take his views to represent a whole system of thought, not, at least, if you are serious.

Thus, if I want to learn about atheism I should read Bertrand Russell, rather than debating Sam the Schmuck atheist on youtube...and if you really want to learn about religious thought, you won't go to me or Seawolf, but to the primary sources.  The Summa Theologica, with helpful commentaries, is available for a reasonable price.   Wink

...or you can continue to debate ignorant everyday people, and when they are illogical you can then say "see, Christianity is illogical, herpity derp!!!"




You are an imbecile. Catholics killed other Christians for simply practicing a slight variation of their cult.

What do you think they would have done to people like Aristotle or Plato that weren't Christian at all, "supernaturalist" or not, which btw isn't even a word, asshole.

The more your ilk is ignorant and biased, the more it is arrogant and insulting to people better equipped intellectually.

That's almost a law of nature.
  

Non sequitur:

Rodney Your Teas Ready wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Seawolf
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #21 - Jun 4th, 2017 at 10:00am
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BowHunter wrote on Jun 4th, 2017 at 3:57am:
You are an imbecile. Catholics killed other Christians for simply practicing a slight variation of their cult.

What do you think they would have done to people like Aristotle or Plato that weren't Christian at all, "supernaturalist" or not, which btw isn't even a word, asshole.

The more your ilk is ignorant and biased, the more it is arrogant and insulting to people better equipped intellectually.

That's almost a law of nature.

Your fallacy is associating those who think they are Christians, despite their behavior running contrary to who Christ defined himself to be.  It's easy to define a religion based on the acts of man himself but the real question and example is how did he define himself and his followers.  Murdering in the name of Jesus is not what he ever called us to do and yet those who do this are not, in fact, followers of Christ but of the world.  Knowing the teachings of Christ can help weed truth from fiction.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #22 - Jun 4th, 2017 at 10:16am
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Seawolf wrote on Jun 4th, 2017 at 10:00am:
Your fallacy is associating those who think they are Christians, despite their behavior running contrary to who Christ defined himself to be.  It's easy to define a religion based on the acts of man himself but the real question and example is how did he define himself and his followers.  Murdering in the name of Jesus is not what he ever called us to do and yet those who do this are not, in fact, followers of Christ but of the world.  Knowing the teachings of Christ can help weed truth from fiction.

And you would call yourself a Christian or someone who thinks he's a Christian?

You think you're a Christian, yet, stand idle by and say nothing when people like Jasmine talk about carpet bombing innocent people for being Muslims.

The indiscriminate killing of women and children is not what Jesus told his followers to do.
  

Non sequitur:

Rodney Your Teas Ready wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Nazi Hunter B.S.C.
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #23 - Jun 5th, 2017 at 7:33pm
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BowHunter wrote on Jun 4th, 2017 at 10:16am:
And you would call yourself a Christian or someone who thinks he's a Christian?

You think you're a Christian, yet, stand idle by and say nothing when people like Jasmine talk about carpet bombing innocent people for being Muslims.

The indiscriminate killing of women and children is not what Jesus told his followers to do.


Carpet bombing civilians was in the OT I think.
  

"Be Kind; Everyone You Meet is Fighting a Hard Battle" Plato
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Seawolf
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #24 - Jun 5th, 2017 at 9:22pm
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BowHunter wrote on Jun 4th, 2017 at 10:16am:
And you would call yourself a Christian or someone who thinks he's a Christian?

You think you're a Christian, yet, stand idle by and say nothing when people like Jasmine talk about carpet bombing innocent people for being Muslims.

The indiscriminate killing of women and children is not what Jesus told his followers to do.

I am not accountable for her, I am judge based on one of two things, God's law or his mercy.  Not on Jasmine's behavior.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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fair-minded know it all
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #25 - Jul 21st, 2017 at 6:35am
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Nazi Hunter B.S.C. wrote on May 29th, 2017 at 10:03am:
God makes no bones about it, He creates evil. Shall a trumpet sound in a city and the Lord has not caused it? 

He then demands, doesn't ask, but demands that we love Him above all others. 

Can I ask how a Christian can worship He who creates evil and makes woe?

Why did He make pain?  Don't give me any crap about pain allowing us to detect probelms in our body, any jukebox manufacturer could have done better.  Why not a bright red neon sign on our forehead that lights up when there's a problem? 

Apparently, writhing around in pain on our death bed is how He wants some of us to die.  How is that not absurd to you?



Here's  a good debate on the subject.  Silverman with the usual mindless Atheist talking points: why do babies suffer/die? why does God judge and condemn people? The God of the bible is evil!! Boo Hoo!  and then from the other side of his mouth, "there is no such thing as evil, that's just a Judeo/Christian construct, it's all just relative and cultural" etc.
Dr. White the smart guy takes on these issues, explains Theodicy (The problem of evil, suffering), God's sovereignty, Silverman's inconsistencies, etc..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4oNDSg_g-8
« Last Edit: Jul 21st, 2017 at 2:16pm by fair-minded know it all »  

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Seawolf
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #26 - Jul 21st, 2017 at 8:40am
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The wonderful news for Joe Schmoe is that he is not required or asked to study Aristotle, for instance.  He is taught to immerse himself in God's word.  You will NEVER win the intellect of the sinner over.  That is not how we are taught to in scripture to witness to the unsaved, we are taught to bypass the intellect and go straight to the heart.  We are to stir the conscious as Jesus demonstrated effectively.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Limey
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #27 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 4:48am
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Seawolf wrote on Jul 21st, 2017 at 8:40am:
The wonderful news for Joe Schmoe is that he is not required or asked to study Aristotle, for instance.  He is taught to immerse himself in God's word.  You will NEVER win the intellect of the sinner over.  That is not how we are taught to in scripture to witness to the unsaved, we are taught to bypass the intellect and go straight to the heart.  We are to stir the conscious as Jesus demonstrated effectively.



Interesting.

You accept that the intellect will reject superstition and therefore religion can only survive by appealing to animal instincts.
  

Under Capitalism, Man exploits Man.

Under Communism, it's the exact opposite.
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BowHunter
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #28 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 6:03am
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Limey wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 4:48am:
Interesting.

You accept that the intellect will reject superstition and therefore religion can only survive by appealing to animal instincts.


You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
  

Non sequitur:

Rodney Your Teas Ready wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Seawolf
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Re: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil...
Reply #29 - Jul 24th, 2017 at 6:53am
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Limey wrote on Jul 24th, 2017 at 4:48am:
Interesting.

You accept that the intellect will reject superstition and therefore religion can only survive by appealing to animal instincts.

Arguing from your intellect does not mean you are correct, just means you will rationalize your ways rather then from the conscious which convicts all of us of wrongs.  No one is spared from their conscious, but one can rationalize their sins to the point of suppressing one's conscious.  Sinners will justify their actions, because they love the sin.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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