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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Soak the rich-Maine taxes (Read 926 times)
wyattstorch2004
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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #10 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 7:45pm
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Fiddler wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 3:16pm:
I'm a bit surprised that that 'spin' still works..

You understand as well as I that it's the percentage of an individual's income paid as taxes that matter .. not overall taxes paid..



What "matters" is a matter of opinion...

You understand this?

What is really surprising is the, "oh those people have it so tough" snark works on anyone.  As if it remotely resembles an argument regarding how much someone should be taxed...

...also surprising is that the "white guys" mess you made in your post works for anyone.
  
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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #11 - Jun 14th, 2017 at 7:58pm
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Sin taxes are designed to discourage the use of tobacco and cigarettes yet the same logic is never applied to income taxes or minimum wage rates.
  

"Practical men, who believe themselves to be quite exempt from any intellectual influences, are usually the slaves of some defunct economist." J M Keynes

"In the first place, the dichotomy between "theoretical" and "practical" is a false one. In economics, all arguments are theoretical. And, since economics discusses the real world, these theoretical arguments are by their nature "practical" ones as well." M Rothbard
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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #12 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:09am
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petep wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 5:08pm:
Yes, and this tax increase increases the percentage of total that a person earning 200 or more pays. It's a progressive tax. More you make the more of a percent govt will take.


Maybe Maine should be more like Kansas?  Cut income tax rates and raise regressive sales taxes instead?  Oh wait.  Kansas' economy is tanking and its deficit is in the crapper - to the point where the republican majority in a deep-red state actually overrode the governor's veto and raised taxes.

And before you complain about soaking the rich, you have to look at the big picture:
- effective tax rates on the rich are always lower than the bracketed rates, thanks to shelters
- lower brackets are hit harder by sales taxes, fees, etc, as a percentage of income

And while progressive tax rates tend to raise income taxes on upper brackets, they never beat the rates of wealth disparity.  If effective upper income tax rates hit 30% (and they rarely do), those taxed control a share of wealth that exceeds 30%.  Income isn't the only scale.
  

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wyattstorch2004
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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #13 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:16am
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forgotten centrist wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:09am:
Maybe Maine should be more like Kansas?  Cut income tax rates and raise regressive sales taxes instead?  Oh wait.  Kansas' economy is tanking and its deficit is in the crapper - to the point where the republican majority in a deep-red state actually overrode the governor's veto and raised taxes.

And before you complain about soaking the rich, you have to look at the big picture:
- effective tax rates on the rich are always lower than the bracketed rates, thanks to shelters
- lower brackets are hit harder by sales taxes, fees, etc, as a percentage of income

And while progressive tax rates tend to raise income taxes on upper brackets, they never beat the rates of wealth disparity.  If effective upper income tax rates hit 30% (and they rarely do), those taxed control a share of wealth that exceeds 30%.  Income isn't the only scale.


Bolding mine.

But do they get a share of the government dole that exceeds 30%?  Certainly not, even with the massive bite that Elon Musk gets.

But, either way, what should income tax rates have to do with the share of wealth controlled by some arbitrary group of people?  What sense does it make for those percentages to be the same or even related?  I just don't get it.
  
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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #14 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 7:32am
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petep wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 11:51am:
Here in Maine voters recently voted to increase taxes for those making over 200k.

This seems so unfair. Of course the masses making under this amount will vote sure, let's tax them.

To the extent that top wage earners already cover the vast majority of the budget, you would think this type ballot - are you in favor of robbing paul for peter - should not be allowed.

I think it's disappointing as a whole, that our country continues to dive down this hole of penalizing those who have succeeded. Financially. It seemed growing up you were taught to believe in hard work paying off. Now hard work just means someone else will seek to steal your rewards and you are demonized if you balk at covering even more of the budget.



But, a lot of these rich in Maine are fine with it.


  

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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #15 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 11:25am
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To OP, not all wealthy people worked hard and succeeded.


Quite a few inherited.


Quite a few hard working people are not wealthy but those for whom they work are.
  

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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #16 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:13pm
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wyattstorch2004 wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:16am:
Bolding mine.

But do they get a share of the government dole that exceeds 30%?  Certainly not, even with the massive bite that Elon Musk gets.

But, either way, what should income tax rates have to do with the share of wealth controlled by some arbitrary group of people?  What sense does it make for those percentages to be the same or even related?  I just don't get it.


It's not perfect, but it's arguable that you should pay a share of taxes in broad proportion to the share of the economy you control.  So if a class of people control 30% of the economy, it's not unfair to ask them to pay 30% of taxes.

We have set things up where the bulk of our tax revenue comes through various income taxes.  Wealthy people have found various ways to escape these taxes, and poorer people haven't, so many jurisdictions have tried to account for that by raising rates for higher incomes.  But regardless, income alone is a flawed way of assessing tax liability, because you can control a large amount of wealth (and benefit proportionately) while reporting a small income (like Trump.)

The assessed rates are higher for the rich in terms of income, but not in terms of wealth.  And I don't see how assessing taxes broadly in proportion with wealth is unfair.
  

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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #17 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:15pm
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Luther wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 7:32am:
But, a lot of these rich in Maine are fine with it.



John Travolta? You think he is?
  

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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #18 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:32pm
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wyattstorch2004 wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 7:45pm:
What "matters" is a matter of opinion...

.



If you're mathematically challenged I suppose that's true..

  
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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #19 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:00pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:13pm:
It's not perfect, but it's arguable that you should pay a share of taxes in broad proportion to the share of the economy you control.  So if a class of people control 30% of the economy, it's not unfair to ask them to pay 30% of taxes.

We have set things up where the bulk of our tax revenue comes through various income taxes.  Wealthy people have found various ways to escape these taxes, and poorer people haven't, so many jurisdictions have tried to account for that by raising rates for higher incomes.  But regardless, income alone is a flawed way of assessing tax liability, because you can control a large amount of wealth (and benefit proportionately) while reporting a small income (like Trump.)

The assessed rates are higher for the rich in terms of income, but not in terms of wealth.  And I don't see how assessing taxes broadly in proportion with wealth is unfair.


Which is why young athletes in mass all get trophies
  
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