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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Soak the rich-Maine taxes (Read 543 times)
glen65
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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #20 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:05pm
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Fiddler wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 3:16pm:
I'm a bit surprised that that 'spin' still works..

You understand as well as I that it's the percentage of an individual's income paid as taxes that matter .. not overall taxes paid..



Not spin,
People making 250 thousand a year and above do indeed pay most income taxes.
The real debate here is whether or not the amount being paid is fair.

Quote:
High-income Americans pay most income taxes, but enough to be ‘fair’?
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/13/high-income-americans-pay-most-i...

  
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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #21 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 1:08pm
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Limey wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 11:25am:
To OP, not all wealthy people worked hard and succeeded.


Quite a few inherited.


Quite a few hard working people are not wealthy but those for whom they work are.


I believe in money european countries that is the case. Not the case here. Heck, review how much the Forbes riches 400 Americans changed year to year.

The notion of luck and inheritance happens. But it's certainly the exception and not the reason you use to enact tax policy.

It would appear from these posts many would favor adding some weight to bolts sprinting shoes. After all, it's just not fair
  
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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #22 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 2:21pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:13pm:
It's not perfect, but it's arguable that you should pay a share of taxes in broad proportion to the share of the economy you control.  So if a class of people control 30% of the economy, it's not unfair to ask them to pay 30% of taxes.


While that is quite debatable, that isn't what you said.  You mentioned tax rates as a percentage of income matching the share of the economy that an arbitrary group controls.  As you initially put it, you could, arbitrarily say, "OK, this group of people (all US citizens) pay 100% of taxes, therefore, they should have a 100% tax rate". 

We have set things up where the bulk of our tax revenue comes through various income taxes.  Wealthy people have found various ways to escape these taxes, and poorer people haven't, [/quote]

Sure, if you ignore the much lower rates that get applied to them... 

Quote:
so many jurisdictions have tried to account for that by raising rates for higher incomes.  But regardless, income alone is a flawed way of assessing tax liability, because you can control a large amount of wealth (and benefit proportionately) while reporting a small income (like Trump.)

The assessed rates are higher for the rich in terms of income, but not in terms of wealth.  And I don't see how assessing taxes broadly in proportion with wealth is unfair.


Because wealth is not directly correlated to your use of government services.

Fiddler wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 12:32pm:
If you're mathematically challenged I suppose that's true..



What does math have to do with the meaning of "matters" and what is and isn't opinion?
  
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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #23 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 2:21pm
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- how many in Maine make 200k?
  

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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #24 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 3:06pm
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wyattstorch2004 wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 2:21pm:
While that is quite debatable, that isn't what you said.  You mentioned tax rates as a percentage of income matching the share of the economy that an arbitrary group controls.  As you initially put it, you could, arbitrarily say, "OK, this group of people (all US citizens) pay 100% of taxes, therefore, they should have a 100% tax rate". 


Awkward wording on my part.  I wasn't linking 30% to 30%.  My intent was to say that the rich do get assessed higher taxes (and pay a higher share of overall taxes), but only when measured against income.  Against wealth, they tend to pay in proportion to the wealth they control.

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Sure, if you ignore the much lower rates that get applied to them... 


Poor people have lower bracketed rates, but they pay higher in terms of regressive taxes like social security and sales tax.

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Because wealth is not directly correlated to your use of government services.


It's not?  How do you figure?  Yes, poor people benefit from the social safety net.  But rich people benefit in several other ways.  Their investments and property values soar in a society of laws largely written to their benefit.  Infrastructure benefits their businesses much more.  Even that social safety net helps them, as evidenced by that study that showed mega-employers like Walmart pay lower-than-market wages because their employees can draw public assistance.  (Indeed, Walmart was helping them apply for benefits!)

And national defense, one of our big ticket items, directly benefits people in proportion to the wealth they control.
  

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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #25 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 7:53pm
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forgotten centrist wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 3:06pm:
Awkward wording on my part.  I wasn't linking 30% to 30%.  My intent was to say that the rich do get assessed higher taxes (and pay a higher share of overall taxes), but only when measured against income.  Against wealth, they tend to pay in proportion to the wealth they control.


Poor people have lower bracketed rates, but they pay higher in terms of regressive taxes like social security and sales tax.


Do you really think that, generally, the lower end of the income scale has people paying a larger percentage of their income in taxes (if we are going to constantly focus on percentage)?

Also, in terms of social security, at least, who gets a larger benefit from the program relative to their lifetime earnings?


Quote:
It's not?  How do you figure?  Yes, poor people benefit from the social safety net.  But rich people benefit in several other ways.  Their investments and property values soar in a society of laws largely written to their benefit. 


But that costs next to nothing in terms of taxes.  It may be costly in terms of lobbying, but that is not part of this equation (and, if anything, favors my argument)

Quote:
Infrastructure benefits their businesses much more.


This is way over-generalized.

You have no idea how large swaths of people earn their incomes.

Throw in diminishing returns and you have a situation where the tax paid relative to the benefits will favor the poor.  If for no other reason than the fact that so many of them, on net, pay in very little while getting a great deal of their livelihood funded by government.

Quote:
Even that social safety net helps them, as evidenced by that study that showed mega-employers like Walmart pay lower-than-market wages because their employees can draw public assistance.  (Indeed, Walmart was helping them apply for benefits!)


Who is doing better with the Medicaid program as a share of the taxes they pay?  The Medicaid covered individual, or the company that pays them a lower wage thanks to this government manipulation?  Do you have numbers on this, or is this an assumption?  Support this.

Quote:
And national defense, one of our big ticket items, directly benefits people in proportion to the wealth they control.


Again, I think this over-generalized wealth.  And, again, how does the benefit compare to that of others as a percentage of the taxes they pay?  Stats are needed to make these claims.
  
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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #26 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 10:29pm
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Fiddler wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 1:10pm:
Indeed.. Rich, white guys have had it tough ..



If it were not for the taxes paid by the top ten percent of the wealthy, you would not have earned enough in your lifetime to pay your fair share.
Being successful most of the time is not just working from 7am to 3:30 pm and going home for dinner.
And because they are successful by working hard, you all want to punish them.
Smiley
  

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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #27 - Jun 15th, 2017 at 10:52pm
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Who Pays Income Taxes? The Rich, Mostly

The wealthiest 1 percent of the population earn 19 per­cent of the income but pay 37 percent of the income tax. The top 10 percent pay 68 percent of the tab.


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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #28 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 9:03am
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admin wrote on Jun 15th, 2017 at 2:21pm:
- how many in Maine make 200k?

More then we think. Plumbers and fisherman make close to that.
  

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Re: Soak the rich-Maine taxes
Reply #29 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:32pm
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JohnnyBgood wrote on Jun 14th, 2017 at 12:28pm:
I agree, I think everyone should pay the same. Mid class income tax in Maine isn't bad, Fed is rape. Those that make over 200k still pay more then the rest.

We need more money for the people that don't use birth control.

No, you need more money to pay for those recovery clinics  Grin
  

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