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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) The Odds of Evolution Are Zero. (Read 8,309 times)
Seawolf
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Re: The Odds of Evolution Are Zero.
Reply #210 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 2:32pm
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Fiddler wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 1:45pm:
And the only evidence is a book written by men thousands of years ago.. 

Tell me again why it is that you don't believe in Zeus ..there's a lot written about him you know ??


I have explained to you on numerous occassions why I put my trust in Christ.  Best to move on, no use wasting our time rehashing an old debate, unless you are conceding that you tend to be intolerate of others outside of your own views.  That would be contrary to what you and others love to proclaim.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: The Odds of Evolution Are Zero.
Reply #211 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 5:50pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 11:54am:
Because you can not fathom a Creator outside of the life you live in.  God states he is eternal, he does not live in our realm, one he created.  He exist outside of our mortal form, time does not exist in his realm simply because he is forever.  The problem is grasping the one who made us.  There simply are many things about God that is a mystery to us, we are incapable to grasp the One who made us.  Ask me to explain the Godhead and that is a discussion I can not wrap my head around, but if we were capable of explaining God in his fullness with no mystery does he cease being God?  I would would think so, his power, his very existence challenges our very life to it's core.


"God states he is eternal"!!!

What you really mean is that some old book that is so miswritten that parts of it have already been debunked to ridicule, contains some vague allegations that you've arrogantly decided were the words of god verbatim, totally ignoring in your blindness the aforementioned debunked parts.
  

Non sequitur:

The Hamster is at it Again wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Re: The Odds of Evolution Are Zero.
Reply #212 - Jul 20th, 2017 at 5:54pm
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Seawolf wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 2:32pm:
I have explained to you on numerous occassions why I put my trust in Christ.  Best to move on, no use wasting our time rehashing an old debate, unless you are conceding that you tend to be intolerate of others outside of your own views.  That would be contrary to what you and others love to proclaim.


You're the intolerant one. You're so arrogant that you don't even grant the Catholics, who represent the majority of the Christians of the world, the status of Christians.
  

Non sequitur:

The Hamster is at it Again wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Seawolf
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Re: The Odds of Evolution Are Zero.
Reply #213 - Jul 21st, 2017 at 6:01am
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BowHunter wrote on Jul 20th, 2017 at 5:54pm:
You're the intolerant one. You're so arrogant that you don't even grant the Catholics, who represent the majority of the Christians of the world, the status of Christians.

Nothing to do with denominations, you can not be saved because you are a Catholic, a Baptist...  The Bible is clear, has nothing to do with my opinion.
  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Freon_Bale
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Re: The Odds of Evolution Are Zero.
Reply #214 - Aug 17th, 2017 at 8:52pm
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Very interesting topic, as my background is in biology and computational biology.

I vote for evolution.

The OP's reference to a Theologian with no actual science background is absurd. I too, work with computers, and I can generate a model of anything fairly easily. Does not really act as evidence for anything. Models are predictive for future events, not really past ones, unless we are talking about planetary orbits, which are easy to calculate and have minimal external influences.

As to skepticism derived from things like the fossil record having gaps, well, it is good to be skeptical. If it were only the fossil record clearly showing a transition from simpler to more complex organisms, I could see being unconvinced. But there are so many other data points that favor this hypothesis, that it really should be called a law. From ice cores to tree rings, from vestigial limbs (whales with useless little legs, humans with tails, and other genetic holdovers) to the chirality of glucose and cellulose, it is almost impossible NOT to come to the conclusion that evolution is occurring.

I actually find it comforting to know that nature is lazy. Nature does not reinvent the wheel. If something works, nature reuses it over and over, and if it stops working, it keeps a copy in the genes just in case it can be used later as a mutation. It is a flexible system where we are all interrelated. It's messy. Some things would have been better designed from scratch (like our eyes), but it works.

One last critical point. Scientists do not fear the attacks of theologians or lay people because they really have no background to form a strong argument. No, scientists fear other scientists. Science is self-correcting. There are thousands of labs out there right now trying to disprove every single theory science knows of. They have a MUCH better chance of doing so than those who philosophically disagree with a scientific principal. Science does not care what the reality is, even if it disproves itself. Not saying it is perfect, there are many crappy scientists who publish just to get money or prestige, but in the end, they are always discovered and science moves on.
« Last Edit: Aug 17th, 2017 at 8:57pm by Freon_Bale »  
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Re: The Odds of Evolution Are Zero.
Reply #215 - Aug 17th, 2017 at 8:56pm
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Freon_Bale wrote on Aug 17th, 2017 at 8:52pm:
Very interesting topic, as my background is in biology and computational biology.

I vote for evolution.

The OP's reference to a Theologian with no actual science background is absurd. I too, work with computers, and I can generate a model of anything fairly easily. Does not really act as evidence for anything. Models are predictive for future events, not really past ones, unless we are talking about planetary orbits, which are easy to calculate and have minimal external influences.

As to skepticism derived from things like the fossil record having gaps, well, it is good to be skeptical. If it were only the fossil record clearly showing a transition from simpler to more complex organisms, I could see being unconvinced. But there are so many other data points that favor this hypothesis, that it really should be called a law. From ice cores to tree rings, from vestigial limbs (whales with useless little legs, humans with tails, and other genetic holdovers) to the chirality of glucose and cellulose, it is almost impossible NOT to come to the conclusion that evolution is occurring.

I actually find it comforting to know that nature is lazy. Nature does not reinvent the wheel. If something works, nature reuses it over and over, and if it stops working, it keeps a copy in the genes just in case it can be used later as a mutation. It is a flexible system where we are all interrelated. It's messy. Some things would have been better designed from scratch (like our eyes), but it works.



I don't think we're voting, but if we do, there are more than a few "theistic evolutionists" who would vote for evolution, too, but you'd need to put an asterisk out to the side of their votes to distinguish them from the others.
  

non sumus stulti
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Re: The Odds of Evolution Are Zero.
Reply #216 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:20am
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Freon_Bale wrote on Aug 17th, 2017 at 8:52pm:
Very interesting topic, as my background is in biology and computational biology.

I vote for evolution.

The OP's reference to a Theologian with no actual science background is absurd. I too, work with computers, and I can generate a model of anything fairly easily. Does not really act as evidence for anything. Models are predictive for future events, not really past ones, unless we are talking about planetary orbits, which are easy to calculate and have minimal external influences.

As to skepticism derived from things like the fossil record having gaps, well, it is good to be skeptical. If it were only the fossil record clearly showing a transition from simpler to more complex organisms, I could see being unconvinced. But there are so many other data points that favor this hypothesis, that it really should be called a law. From ice cores to tree rings, from vestigial limbs (whales with useless little legs, humans with tails, and other genetic holdovers) to the chirality of glucose and cellulose, it is almost impossible NOT to come to the conclusion that evolution is occurring.

I actually find it comforting to know that nature is lazy. Nature does not reinvent the wheel. If something works, nature reuses it over and over, and if it stops working, it keeps a copy in the genes just in case it can be used later as a mutation. It is a flexible system where we are all interrelated. It's messy. Some things would have been better designed from scratch (like our eyes), but it works.

One last critical point. Scientists do not fear the attacks of theologians or lay people because they really have no background to form a strong argument. No, scientists fear other scientists. Science is self-correcting. There are thousands of labs out there right now trying to disprove every single theory science knows of. They have a MUCH better chance of doing so than those who philosophically disagree with a scientific principal. Science does not care what the reality is, even if it disproves itself. Not saying it is perfect, there are many crappy scientists who publish just to get money or prestige, but in the end, they are always discovered and science moves on.

So how did nature know I needed hair, or lungs, or an ear?  How many attempts did nature have at evolving us to exist in our environment?  We are assuming an awful lot here.  That in every case of evolution of a different species nature got it right.  I find that very conflicting, explain how that is possible short of a Creator.  Then the real question of the beginning is how does life create something out of nothing.
« Last Edit: Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:28am by Seawolf »  


"Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure (and) which insures to the good eternal happiness, are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments."

Charles Carroll, signer of the DOI
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Re: The Odds of Evolution Are Zero.
Reply #217 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 8:04am
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Seawolf wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:20am:
So how did nature know I needed hair, or lungs, or an ear?
  How many attempts did nature have at evolving us to exist in our environment?  We are assuming an awful lot here.  That in every case of evolution of a different species nature got it right.  I find that very conflicting, explain how that is possible short of a Creator.  Then the real question of the beginning is how does life create something out of nothing.



You don't understand how it works. It's not about nature "getting it right". In fact, very frequently, nature doesn't get it right. People are born with disabilities and defects of all kinds and the same happens to other animals and plants as well.

What happens is that in nature it's a straight forward competition. Animals with disabilities in the wild are never seen because they're the first ones to starve or to be captured by predators. They don't stand a chance.

So where do you get the strange idea that scientists think that your physical characteristics come from some "awareness" of nature of your needs?

You keep making the oddest statements as if you had never read anything and by that I mean anything at all about the subjects you criticize.
  

Non sequitur:

The Hamster is at it Again wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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Re: The Odds of Evolution Are Zero.
Reply #218 - Aug 18th, 2017 at 11:22am
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Seawolf wrote on Aug 18th, 2017 at 7:20am:
So how did nature know I needed hair, or lungs, or an ear?  How many attempts did nature have at evolving us to exist in our environment?  We are assuming an awful lot here.  That in every case of evolution of a different species nature got it right.  I find that very conflicting, explain how that is possible short of a Creator.  Then the real question of the beginning is how does life create something out of nothing.


First off, I get it. I understand how the concept of evolution is uncomfortable. It basically says there is nothing special about you, you are just another animal.

And yet, that is not how I see it at all. Each organism that is currently here on Earth represents the best of the best at surviving, given the current conditions. We humans are the product of massive random and pressured trial and error to eventually yield a species that is arguably the best survivor of them all.

But I think it goes deeper than that. If you realize that all matter in the universe that is not Hydrogen and Helium, meaning all elements on the periodic table that have greater than two protons, were created in the explosion of stars, then that means we are literally made from stars. We ARE the universe. We ARE nature, and our exploration of how the universe works is actually nature trying to understand itself.

If you wanted a grand purpose, I can see none greater.
  
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Re: The Odds of Evolution Are Zero.
Reply #219 - Aug 20th, 2017 at 2:53am
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« Last Edit: Aug 24th, 2017 at 11:21pm by President in Exile Bama Beau »  

I didn't come here from a private forum run by a gay guy.
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