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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Do we all agree on this? (Read 2,784 times)
Archie
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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #50 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 9:40pm
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BowHunter wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 10:09am:
Would the results be different if the people that don't vote, were motivated to vote?


If they were motivated, which is what all the campaigning is about, they would vote for who agrees with their way of life.
Smiley
  

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Archie
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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #51 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 9:48pm
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Wadsworth wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:37pm:
And many people voted for Trump just because he was a rich celebrity.  They did not care about his many misdeeds and still don't care.  it is all relative 



What Trump misdeeds? Let’s talk about Bill and Hillary misdeeds, and then the mistakes that Obama gave us.
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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #52 - Jun 18th, 2017 at 9:56pm
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Jimmy S wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 9:31pm:
Yup. You're one of them. Nice work.



Really? I am sure, that I know a lot about a lot of things way beyond your comprehension. And not only politically. I am pretty sure that three years from now, you will be much better off than you are now. That is if you are normal and a working or retired citizen.
Trump even though with all the false news and accusations, will be elected again in 2020.
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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #53 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 4:24am
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Archie wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 9:56pm:
Really? I am sure, that I know a lot about a lot of things way beyond your comprehension. And not only politically. I am pretty sure that three years from now, you will be much better off than you are now. That is if you are normal and a working or retired citizen.
Trump even though with all the false news and accusations, will be elected again in 2020.
Smiley


Yeah, if you are so intelligent then you do a remarkable job of sounding more moronic than a pile of rocks. You have to be commended.
You should at least be nominated for an academy award.
  

Non sequitur:

Do You Eat Carrots wrote on Mar 2nd, 2017 at 4:30am:
... that has less power than a hair dryer used by a eunuch.



Rabbit_Reborn wrote on Feb 5th, 2017 at 5:40pm:
...that makes me a moron.
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crepe05
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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #54 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 6:18am
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Queshank wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 9:49am:
Nope I don't agree.

If I were a gay man, I would vote for a gay man from either party almost without hesitation.  Because that person would know me and my struggles better than any other candidate.  And I wouldn't feel remotely guilty about it.

If I were a black man, I would vote for a black man from either party almost without hesitation.  Because that man would know me and my struggles better than any other candidate.  And I wouldn't feel remotely guilty about it.

If I were a woman, I would vote for a woman from either party almost without hesitation.  Because that woman would know me and my struggles better than any other candidate.  And I wouldn't feel remotely guilty about it.

As a white man I have no struggles that are unique to my heritage.  My struggles are human struggles.  My struggles are the same struggles a gay man, a black man and a woman faces .... they just get to add to those struggles with a few more of their own.  As a white man I don't feel like I need to vote for a white man on  the offchance he knows my situation and will govern accordingly.  As a result as a white man I'm free to vote based on policy in ways others in this country are not.

By the same token and for the same reasons I feel no rancor or animosity towards those who voted against someone because they're black, gay or a woman. If I think it's appropriate for blacks, gays and women to vote for someone who is black, gay or a woman, I can't remain intellectually honest and then have a problem with those voting FOR the white guy because he's not black, gay or a woman.  Because it's the same principle at play.  The black, gay, woman doesn't feel the white guy candidate will represent them as well because of his skin color and gender.  Why can't the person who votes for the white guy feel the same way?

Especially if (like Clinton) they make it a central theme of their campaign and don't attempt to reach out beyond that.  There is no doubt misogyny played a role in Clinton's defeat.  In places where Trump won by like 20 to 70,000 votes I don't think it'd be too hard to claim 20 to 70 thousand people in those regions are "misogynist."  The reason people sound so stupid (like Clinton) when they try to make the argument this is "the reason" is they ignore all the people who voted FOR Clinton for no better reason than she's a woman.  Were there 20 to 70 thousand people in those areas who voted for Clinton because she was a woman?  Oh absolutely.  Was misogyny a bigger problem for Clinton than race was for Obama?  Absolutely.  But it was only a bigger problem for Clinton because she ran on BEING a woman.  Obama didn't run on BEING a black man. 

Queshank


Whoa, give some of us a little bit of credit.  I'm a woman, and there was a woman running in the last election.  I can guarantee that I didn't vote for her.  Voting for a person because of their gender is stupid.  Even though hil's is a woman there is no way her struggles were the same as my struggles. 

Obama didn't run on being black?  He didn't have to say it.  It's obvious that he's black.  Have you noticed the color of his skin?  That's a bit of a giveaway.

Do you think Muslims would vote for a Muslim candidate because he (and I'll leave it as a he due to Sharia law) is a Muslim?  For myself, if there was a Muslim running for office where I live, and we do have a mosque in the city, I would vote for any non-Muslim running against him, due to their attitude toward women's rights.  Would you vote for a Muslim candidate if you aren't Muslim?
  
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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #55 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 7:10am
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Jasmine wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:39pm:
True. But that isn't a biased thing in terms of race or gender. That's just a retarded thing done by low-information voters.


And the truth will out.  Like many White people, you don't like or didn't like it when Black voters came out in support of Obama.  It seemed the common theme was "if these people were REALLY like us, they'd know better than to vote for him".  In your mind, that makes them "low information" voters or...  stupid or racists or bigots.  All that is is a silly justification for dismissing other peoples life experiences and attitudes.  People vote for the candidate that best reflects their own interests and the one that is most like them.  Black people came out to vote for Obama for these reasons.  That's not racism or bigotry.  I remind you that Black people did NOT come out to support Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and Alan Keyes.  In case you didn't know it, they are also Black but no one in the Black community thought there was a shared interest there so this notion that Black people will only support a Black candidate is bunk.

Greg
  

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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #56 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 8:00am
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Archie wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 9:21pm:
If that is what you think, then I can think that there are a lot more stupid white people than black. Because they outnumbered the black votes for Obama. Remember Obama? He was ½ black, and all socialist.
Smiley


Of course there are a lot more stupid whites than black.  There are more whites than blacks.  Now, if you want to talk in terms of percentage, ok.
  
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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #57 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 8:21am
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Wadsworth wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 2:43pm:
That is so untrue.  That would mean that most women voted for Hillary.  That did not happen.  If Sarah Palin ran for president, do you think most woman would have voted for her?  Never.  How about Ben Carson.  I really doubt that most black people would have voted for him if he won the general election.  The truth is that people stick to party lines no matter what, not gender, race or sexual orientation.


BowHunter wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 4:34pm:
Q's comment doesn't make much sense. Even he must have realized it by now.


crepe05 wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 6:18am:
Whoa, give some of us a little bit of credit.  I'm a woman, and there was a woman running in the last election.  I can guarantee that I didn't vote for her.  Voting for a person because of their gender is stupid.  Even though hil's is a woman there is no way her struggles were the same as my struggles. 


It's interesting I'm responding to the 3 of you who all 3 seem to have drawn the same mistaken conclusions from my post.  For the life of me I can't figure out how, but allow me to expand on it for you.

I made 2 related points in my post. 

The first point is that I have no problem with people voting for or against a candidate based on the candidate's gender, sexual persuasion, religion or skin color.  I simply don't care.  It's a natural and human thing to do, and in some cases it is in fact politically expedient.  I do not agree with Jasmine that it is wrong to be human and behave in a human fashion.  I cannot fault someone for voting for someone because they think the candidate will see the world in the same way they do.  It's why we all vote for president in the end.

The second point illustrates the reason I have no problem with it.  It's because for as many people who vote FOR a candidate based solely on gender, religion, blah blah there is somebody who has voted AGAINST a candidate based on those same reasons.

I'm not sure how you got to "That would mean that most women voted for Hillary." from my post.  I specifically referenced 20 to 70 thousand people voting against Hillary in swing states based on her gender.  And said there were at least 20 to 70 thousand people voting for Hillary in swing states based on her gender. 

Let's take Pennsylvania so I can perhaps unpack this a little better.  It was one of the states Hillary lost by a slim margin so it's a perfect example.

A total of 6,165,478 people voted in Pennsylvania for the 2016 presidential election.  ( Please take note immediately that 20 to 70 thousand is not a majority of 6 million)

Donald Trump won the state by a slim ass margin of 44,000 votes.

My point is that there is legitimacy to the claim that Donald Trump won due to misogyny.  (Which is kind of what Jasmine is saying is wrong in this thread.)  Were there 44,000 people out of 6 million people who voted AGAINST Hillary because of reasons that if you picked at it boil down to the simple fact that she was a woman?  Abso crappity smacking lutely.  Without a shadow of a doubt.  I mean using actual math instead of Wadsworth math, that's about 0.7% of voters in Pennsylvania.  I can definitely concede we as a society are at least that misogynistic. 

However, making that argument cherry picks data.  Because given the campaign Hillary ran ... which can be boiled down to "hate people who think different than us, vote for me because I'm a woman and it's time!" ... it is also incredibly likely that at least an equal figure to that 0.7% voted FOR Hillary because she was a woman.

They wash each other out and it means nothing to argue that Hillary lost because of misogyny.  If she had won, she also would have won if she had based on people voting for her in a push back against perceived misogyny.

Does that clear things up for you guys?

Wadsworth I think it's interesting in your first response to me you said:

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 2:43pm:
The truth is that people stick to party lines no matter what


And then you say .. minutes later ...

Wadsworth wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:37pm:
And many people voted for Trump just because he was a rich celebrity. 


Please explain.  And when you're done explaining the inconsistency between those two points, please explain why so many Democrats voted for Trump in the last election.

Crepe, you say it was obvious Obama was black just by looking at him ergo he ran on being black. 

He never said "It's time for a black man."  He never had a convention where he shattered barriers and made it a central piece of his campaign.  He never made the central push of his campaign slogan "I'm with the black man!"  Sure his surrogates did.  But he didn't.

And in case you didn't notice, you could tell Hillary was a woman just by looking at her too.  And if someone couldn't tell, Hillary and her surrogates sure made a point of reminding you.

Queshank
  

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.

Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.
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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #58 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 8:50am
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Quote:


Obama didn't run on being black?  He didn't have to say it.  It's obvious that he's black.  Have you noticed the color of his skin?  That's a bit of a giveaway.



I don't think Obama ran on race and here's a speech from back them. He could easily have played the race card but my opinion is that he did not.

In fact this article is something everyone should read and refresh their memories with.


"I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton’s Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I’ve gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world’s poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners – an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.

It’s a story that hasn’t made me the most conventional candidate. But it is a story that has seared into my genetic makeup the idea that this nation is more than the sum of its parts – that out of many, we are truly one."


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/us/politics/18text-obama.html
  
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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #59 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:22am
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Jasmine wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 3:23am:
Voting *FOR* a candidate primarily because of his race/skin color/gender/sexual orientation is equally as bad as voting *AGAINST* a candidate primarily because of his race/skin color/gender/sexual orientation.

Do you agree?

I agree. Competence, truthfulness and a strong ethical foundation are the critical factors. Old white male, or black lesbian midget, doesn't matter to me.

Keep in mind, I am not saying you can or you can't vote purely on skin color or sex, etc. It's a free world. But doing so is a poor exercise of your democratic responsibility.
  

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