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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Do we all agree on this? (Read 4,385 times)
Vypr
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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #60 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:28am
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crepe05 wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 6:18am:
Obama didn't run on being black?  He didn't have to say it.  It's obvious that he's black.  Have you noticed the color of his skin?  That's a bit of a giveaway.

Yeah, he didn't. Obama had many many flaws, but he didn't run on his race the way he could have. He wasn't playing the race card in a significant way from what I saw.
  

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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #61 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:33am
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I vote for the best candidate I could care less of skin color or sex of the person running.
That's exactly why I voted for Ann Kirkpatrick against John McCain in my senate race AND wrote in NONE OF THE ABOVE for president as none of the 4 canidates were qualified to be president in my personal opinion.
  

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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #62 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:38am
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Archie wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 9:48pm:
What Trump misdeeds? Let’s talk about Bill and Hillary misdeeds, and then the mistakes that Obama gave us.
Smiley

Why don't you want to talk about Trump's misdeeds?  There are plenty of them.  Do you just choose to ignore them and act as if they don't exist?
  

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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #63 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:43am
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Wadsworth wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:38am:
Why don't you want to talk about Trump's misdeeds?  There are plenty of them.  Do you just choose to ignore them and act as if they don't exist?

POT meet KETTLE You do the exact same thing when it comes to obama Clinton Lynch or anyone else on the Democrat side BUT then again you have always been a party Hack.
  

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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #64 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:47am
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Queshank wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 8:21am:
It's interesting I'm responding to the 3 of you who all 3 seem to have drawn the same mistaken conclusions from my post.  For the life of me I can't figure out how, but allow me to expand on it for you.

I made 2 related points in my post. 

The first point is that I have no problem with people voting for or against a candidate based on the candidate's gender, sexual persuasion, religion or skin color.  I simply don't care.  It's a natural and human thing to do, and in some cases it is in fact politically expedient.  I do not agree with Jasmine that it is wrong to be human and behave in a human fashion.  I cannot fault someone for voting for someone because they think the candidate will see the world in the same way they do.  It's why we all vote for president in the end.

The second point illustrates the reason I have no problem with it.  It's because for as many people who vote FOR a candidate based solely on gender, religion, blah blah there is somebody who has voted AGAINST a candidate based on those same reasons.

I'm not sure how you got to "That would mean that most women voted for Hillary." from my post.  I specifically referenced 20 to 70 thousand people voting against Hillary in swing states based on her gender.  And said there were at least 20 to 70 thousand people voting for Hillary in swing states based on her gender. 

Let's take Pennsylvania so I can perhaps unpack this a little better.  It was one of the states Hillary lost by a slim margin so it's a perfect example.

A total of 6,165,478 people voted in Pennsylvania for the 2016 presidential election.  ( Please take note immediately that 20 to 70 thousand is not a majority of 6 million)

Donald Trump won the state by a slim ass margin of 44,000 votes.

My point is that there is legitimacy to the claim that Donald Trump won due to misogyny.  (Which is kind of what Jasmine is saying is wrong in this thread.)  Were there 44,000 people out of 6 million people who voted AGAINST Hillary because of reasons that if you picked at it boil down to the simple fact that she was a woman?  Abso crappity smacking lutely.  Without a shadow of a doubt.  I mean using actual math instead of Wadsworth math, that's about 0.7% of voters in Pennsylvania.  I can definitely concede we as a society are at least that misogynistic. 

However, making that argument cherry picks data.  Because given the campaign Hillary ran ... which can be boiled down to "hate people who think different than us, vote for me because I'm a woman and it's time!" ... it is also incredibly likely that at least an equal figure to that 0.7% voted FOR Hillary because she was a woman.

They wash each other out and it means nothing to argue that Hillary lost because of misogyny.  If she had won, she also would have won if she had based on people voting for her in a push back against perceived misogyny.

Does that clear things up for you guys?

Wadsworth I think it's interesting in your first response to me you said:


And then you say .. minutes later ...


Please explain.  And when you're done explaining the inconsistency between those two points, please explain why so many Democrats voted for Trump in the last election.

Crepe, you say it was obvious Obama was black just by looking at him ergo he ran on being black. 

He never said "It's time for a black man."  He never had a convention where he shattered barriers and made it a central piece of his campaign.  He never made the central push of his campaign slogan "I'm with the black man!"  Sure his surrogates did.  But he didn't.

And in case you didn't notice, you could tell Hillary was a woman just by looking at her too.  And if someone couldn't tell, Hillary and her surrogates sure made a point of reminding you.

Queshank

Grin  Maybe the three of us did not misunderstand your post.  Perhaps you are back tracking because you now see how foolish your point was or perhaps you just have trouble explaining your point.  as for my two points that you claim contradicts themselves, they do not.  Among party lines, I believe you guys had 17 candidates in the primary election.  Overall, Trump beat them pout and I believe it had something to do with his wealth and celebrity.
  

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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #65 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:49am
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Abe wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 8:50am:
I don't think Obama ran on race and here's a speech from back them. He could easily have played the race card but my opinion is that he did not.

In fact this article is something everyone should read and refresh their memories with.


"I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton’s Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I’ve gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world’s poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners – an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.

It’s a story that hasn’t made me the most conventional candidate. But it is a story that has seared into my genetic makeup the idea that this nation is more than the sum of its parts – that out of many, we are truly one."


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/us/politics/18text-obama.html

Good point Smiley
  

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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #66 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:52am
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RWB wrote on Jun 19th, 2017 at 9:43am:
POT meet KETTLE You do the exact same thing when it comes to obama Clinton Lynch or anyone else on the Democrat side BUT then again you have always been a party Hack.

Stop making accusations that you can't prove.
  

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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #67 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:13pm
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Wadsworth wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 2:43pm:
That is so untrue.  That would mean that most women voted for Hillary.  That did not happen.  If Sarah Palin ran for president, do you think most woman would have voted for her?  Never.  How about Ben Carson.  I really doubt that most black people would have voted for him if he won the general election.  The truth is that people stick to party lines no matter what, not gender, race or sexual orientation.

If we had not yet had a black president, yes. But Ben is a conservative who doesn't focus enough on one race. I don't feel Obama did either. He won because he was the best candidate regardless of the reasons more blacks voted in history.
  

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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #68 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:16pm
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Wadsworth wrote on Jun 18th, 2017 at 7:28pm:
Some people voted for the first time when they voted for BO, but that does not mean they voted for Ben Carson.  It is more about party lines than race or gender.

For majority of the voters yes. But there is a section that will vote based on race. BO would still of won without the racial vote. Its pretty mute and just fun to debate.
  

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Re: Do we all agree on this?
Reply #69 - Jun 19th, 2017 at 12:18pm
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There is a rising meme on the right that maintains we should vote for the best candidates, and not pick someone just for the sake of diversity.  Similarly, the fact that the Trump administration is composed almost entirely of white dudes should not be seen as bad thing -- he is picking the best talent, and is not worried about maintaining some artificial diversity.

Here's the thing.  When Trump picks only white dudes, it's not that he's "discriminating against" other people, it's that he himself is NOT picking the best candidates.  Given the diversity of top-tier candidates in this country, his white-dude team is evidence that HE is picking people based on race/gender. 

Similarly, look at all the people standing with Trump in that rose garden ceremony, celebrating the only measurable victory Trump has had in congress so far (passing Trumpcare I in the house).  They're all white dudes.  That's not a sign that we're picking the best candidates for office in all those republican districts.  It's a sign that in all those republican districts, people overwhelmingly pick the white dude.

In this way, I suppose, Trump's inherent racial bias is accurately reflecting the inherent racial bias in national politics.
  

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